The Big Thing Missing Thematically: Bruce’s Catharsis

The 2012 superhero epic about Batman's struggle to overcome the terrorist leader Bane, as well as his own inner demons.
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(this is a long read so grab a drink and a snack.) The ending of TDKR was one of the greatest endings to a movie/series that I have ever seen. It was absolutely beautiful, everything from Blake inheriting the persona of the Dark Knight, Gordon smiling upon finding the restored Batsignal, and Alfred, Bruce, and Selina sitting in the café. It was especially awesome and fulfilling to learn that Bruce survived and found happiness with Selina. Easily one of Nolan’s happiest and most uplifting endings. Bruce Wayne finally got the happy ending he deserved.

That being said, here’s the big problem: we never got the sense that Bruce WANTED to live again, that he wanted to move on, that he wanted a life free from all of his pain, or that he was looking to live in a place away from Gotham. For the first half of the movie, Bruce was almost suicidal as Alfred pointed out. He didn’t care if he lived or died. He was depressed and lost in his own grief. Heck, he was moping around his mansion wearing his father’s robe, a significant thematic expression of how sad, depressed, and stuck in time he was. He becomes Batman again, largely because Batman was the only thing Bruce was looking forward to (waiting, hoping for things to go bad again as Alfred said), and takes on Bane. He ends getting broken by Bane, and dumped in the pit.

It was here in the pit that I thought the writers should have expanded on Bruce’s thoughts more. His time in the pit was spent worrying about saving Gotham, which obviously makes sense, but Bruce’s psychology and state of mind were largely ignored. You could say that he rediscovered himself when he made that final climb and the bats popped out. That was the moment he truly became Batman again, the moment that he regained the fear of death. But this connotation only went as far as him trying to get out of the pit so that he could go save his city. Bruce didn’t really start loving life again, or at least this was not shown or implied. All it would’ve taken was a line like “I want my own life” or “I’m gonna save this city one last time” or something to that effect, to let us know that Bruce really was craving an end to his superhero life and the beginning of a normal life. Yet not once do we see him desire any kind of peace.

Of course, we see that he did eventually find such a life when we see him in Italy with Selina at the end, but we never saw him overcome all of the things that plagued him throughout the trilogy. It all happened off-screen. How/when/where did he actually get over his parents death? We don’t know because we didn’t see it and it wasn’t implied or hinted at. Again, we know it happened since we saw Selina wearing his mother’s pearls, but I would think that Bruce getting over his parents’ death should have been addressed in some capacity since that grief, that “impossible anger”, is pretty much what has driven Bruce Wayne throughout his seventy year history. Yet there was no such catharsis in this movie. When did he want to start living again and stop being suicidal like he was in the beginning when he wore his dead dad’s clothes? It’s tough to say because it was never hinted at. The only answer I can think of to this would be that final facial expression we see when he flies the nuke away. Maybe that was him realizing he wanted to live, yet I don’t think it was, since the main purpose of that shot was to make us think he was gonna die in the blast. Surely that shot wasn’t shown to portray Bruce overcoming his grief or wanting to live. And how or at what point did he find true love? He and Selina flirted throughout the movie but there was never any true “love” or genuine affection, just a lot of flirting/banter and a goodbye kiss.

Regarding the theoretical effect of the audience knowing that Bruce wanted to live a happy life by the time he returned from the pit, IMO the climax of the movie would’ve been stronger due to enhanced emotional gravitas: not only would he have been fighting to save Gotham as usual, but for the first time he would have been fighting for something more – his own life, his own freedom (not just Gotham’s), and his right to live a normal, happy life. This would’ve raised the stakes even more by giving Bruce a more emotional story arc than just a broken man trying to save Gotham (which I realize is understating how TDKR played out, but you get my drift.) As such, Bruce’s “death” would’ve been sadder, because he wanted to live but couldn’t (until of course we see him at the café.) The last good reason for giving Bruce his want of life back would be to make it easier for both fans and the general audience to accept Bruce Wayne permanently retiring and leaving Gotham – people wouldn’t have been as ticked off upon seeing Blake replace Bruce had we known that Bruce desired some sort of means to a peaceful end. The faking his death scenario and entire end of the movie still could’ve remained exactly the same – that’s the important thing about what I’m saying – no plot alteration would’ve been necessary.

I hope I’ve made this issue clear and that it makes sense. It’s just that it was never implied, hinted at, or made clear that Bruce wanted to live his own life. He climbs out of the pit, stops Bane/the LOS, and retires. That’s great. Yet three of the biggest questions surrounding the personal state of this trilogy’s Bruce (wanting to be able to move on, getting over his parents’ death, and finding love and happiness) were not addressed thematically. They were only confirmed due to us seeing him and Selina alive at the end. I’m probably gonna get an answer like “it doesn’t matter how he moved on from his pain, it only matters that he did” but in this case the how, when, where, and why really do matter. For every year of his life after his parents’ murder, he was bothered by those three issues, and we never see him in the process of overcoming any of them, or more importantly, WANTING to overcome any of them. You can’t help but feel that, as an audience who loves and cares for Bruce/Batman, it would’ve been nice to see, experience, or at least understand that Bruce wanted to move on. We know he did end up moving on, but not that he wanted to. I thought that it was this issue that truly prevents Bruce’s character journey from being perfectly complete.

I know that several threads have been made lately that have suggested changes to the movie which only ended up ticking some users off, but I hope that I’ve made it apparent that I thought Bruce’s character arc was somewhat incomplete, or at least partially flawed, for the reasons I listed above. I’m not saying that I’m better than Nolan or Goyer. And even if you don’t agree with all of my thoughts, do you agree with what I said about the absence of Bruce’s desire to move on?

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That ending that you found so great is where we get to see Bruce wanting to live again.
"It doesn't matter how you get knocked down in life because that's going to happen. All that matters is you gotta get up."

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DoubleD wrote:That ending that you found so great is where we get to see Bruce wanting to live again.
Ah, but he was already living happily by the time we see him at the end. He and Selina had already been happy for months up to that moment. I was talking about the complete lack of any on-screen desire for such peace. He didn't find his want to move on while he was sitting there in Florence sipping a margarita; obviously he had already moved on by that point. I'm saying that there was an unbalance in his state-of-mind and outlook from the beginning of the movie to the end - he goes from being suicidal to living happily after saving Gotham from nuclear annihilation, but there was something big missing in-between: when did he make this huge change in his outlook of life?

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nolangoatdirector wrote:
DoubleD wrote:That ending that you found so great is where we get to see Bruce wanting to live again.
Ah, but he was already living happily by the time we see him at the end. He and Selina had already been happy for months up to that moment. I was talking about the complete lack of any on-screen desire for such peace. He didn't find his want to move on while he was sitting there in Florence sipping a margarita; obviously he had already moved on by that point. I'm saying that there was an unbalance in his state-of-mind and outlook from the beginning of the movie to the end - he goes from being suicidal to living happily after saving Gotham from nuclear annihilation, but there was something big missing in-between: when did he make this huge change in his outlook of life?
damn i love your posts nolangoatdirector! :twothumbsup:

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Well, that was kinda the point, wasn't it? We are not supposed to get it until the last moment. He gained back his will to survive back in the pit, when he tasted the fear of death again. So at the end he somehow managed to save himself because he had learned to care for his own life. A sign for that is the fact that he fixed the autopilot. He wanted to achieve his purpose without wasting himself. Another sign is quiting from being Batman. He had done what he had needed to do, so he felt free from obligation of being a savior.

Right at the end we will be able to see it clearly, because we were supposed to believe that he's still going to sacrifice himself when he's carrying the nuclear bomb.

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Master Virgo wrote:Well, that was kinda the point, wasn't it? We are not supposed to get it until the last moment. He gained back his will to survive back in the pit, when he tasted the fear of death again. So at the end he somehow managed to save himself because he had learned to care for his own life. A sign for that is the fact that he fixed the autopilot. He wanted to achieve his purpose without wasting himself. Another sign is quiting from being Batman. He had done what he had needed to do, so he felt free from obligation of being a savior.

Right at the end we will be able to see it clearly, because we were supposed to believe that he's still going to sacrifice himself when he's carrying the nuclear bomb.
But remember - he fixed the autopilot BEFORE bane dumped him in the pit, back when Bruce was still suicidal. Meaning he fixed the autopilot purely for the sake of functionality, not survival insurance. He ENGAGED the autopilot to survive, yes, but fixing it was not an indication of the desire to survive. Also, I was differentiating between "desire to survive" and "desire to move on". Those are two totally different things. Yes, he wanted to live after being thrown in the pit, but this desire was directly a result of him wanting to save Gotham. He says as much: "I'm not meant to die in here" and "I fear dying in here while my city burns and there's no one there to save it". None of this implies a desire to move on and live for himself. He never lost his deep care for Gotham. But what we never saw was Bruce desire his own life, and I feel that the latter would've gone a long way towards adding more depth to Bruce than the implication we ended up getting, which was that he wanted to die, but engaged the autopilot at the last second. Seeing Bruce happy at the cafe was a huge change, and frankly an unnatural one. It was just "voila!" - one second he wanted to die, and the next we see him live and happy. As great as the ending was, it almost seemed a little forced because it contradicted how Bruce was characterized for the first two and a half hours of the movie. The change was too abrupt and needed some middle ground for a smoother transition to the end of his journey.

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Watching that bitch die for her father's dream woke his ass up.
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nolangoatdirector wrote:
DoubleD wrote:That ending that you found so great is where we get to see Bruce wanting to live again.
Ah, but he was already living happily by the time we see him at the end. He and Selina had already been happy for months up to that moment. I was talking about the complete lack of any on-screen desire for such peace. He didn't find his want to move on while he was sitting there in Florence sipping a margarita; obviously he had already moved on by that point. I'm saying that there was an unbalance in his state-of-mind and outlook from the beginning of the movie to the end - he goes from being suicidal to living happily after saving Gotham from nuclear annihilation, but there was something big missing in-between: when did he make this huge change in his outlook of life?
the prison doctor told him to fear death, and you can only do that if you actively want to live so there you go :).

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Batfan175 wrote:
nolangoatdirector wrote: Ah, but he was already living happily by the time we see him at the end. He and Selina had already been happy for months up to that moment. I was talking about the complete lack of any on-screen desire for such peace. He didn't find his want to move on while he was sitting there in Florence sipping a margarita; obviously he had already moved on by that point. I'm saying that there was an unbalance in his state-of-mind and outlook from the beginning of the movie to the end - he goes from being suicidal to living happily after saving Gotham from nuclear annihilation, but there was something big missing in-between: when did he make this huge change in his outlook of life?
the prison doctor told him to fear death, and you can only do that if you actively want to live so there you go :).
But as I said in my OP, this "fear of death" was more about saving Gotham than it was desiring his own life. "You do not fear death. You think this makes you strong. It makes you weak. How can you move faster than possible, fight longer than possible, without the most powerful impulse of the spirit - the fear of death?" Bruce then talks about fearing dying in the pit WHILE GOTHAM BURNS, to which the doctor replies "Make the climb... without the rope - then fear will find you again". All of this was just Bruce learning how to use fear to make a jump, at least in a literal sense. So yes, while Bruce did want to "live", he wanted to live as in "survive his ordeal in the pit so as to be able to save Gotham City", and not live as in "move on". Learning how to use the fear of death does not equate to desiring happiness. That's my point.

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nolangoatdirector wrote:
Batfan175 wrote:
the prison doctor told him to fear death, and you can only do that if you actively want to live so there you go :).
But as I said in my OP, this "fear of death" was more about saving Gotham than it was desiring his own life. "You do not fear death. You think this makes you strong. It makes you weak. How can you move faster than possible, fight longer than possible, without the most powerful impulse of the spirit - the fear of death?" Bruce then talks about fearing dying in the pit WHILE GOTHAM BURNS, to which the doctor replies "Make the climb... without the rope - then fear will find you again". All of this was just Bruce learning how to use fear to make a jump, at least in a literal sense. So yes, while Bruce did want to "live", he wanted to live as in "survive his ordeal in the pit so as to be able to save Gotham City", and not live as in "move on". Learning how to use the fear of death does not equate to desiring happiness. That's my point.
Well, i'm sure the last scene of the film will not disappoint you then...

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