toyshy wrote:I believe the avalanche was caused by the first bomb set off by Arthur in the elevator.

Technically speaking, Saito's injury in level 3 is transferred from level 2, and his injury in level 2 from 1, hences the severity of his injury wasn't as bad initially on every deeper level.

Under the same logic, wouldn't the gravity change be transferred from level 1 to level 2, and then from level 2 to level 3, albeit in a less severe way? Maybe not complete weightlessness, but some sort of effect?

Man this movie is a mental workout to figure this stuff out.

Ok I think I figured this one out. Just as the van goes over the bridge, they show of Arthur with the headphones on, from the warning music earlier. The headphones most likely messed with Arthur's perception of motion as the 'sensation' of falling comes from your inner ears.

Also the avalanche was indeed caused the van going over the bridge and not Arthur.

Jarmel wrote:Ok I think I figured this one out. Just as the van goes over the bridge, they show of Arthur with the headphones on, from the warning music earlier. The headphones most likely messed with Arthur's perception of motion as the 'sensation' of falling comes from your inner ears.

I not sure how wearing headphones would prevent you from feeling the sensation of falling. I think the headphones are meant to warn of an upcoming kick, but shouldn't interfere with the kick's effectiveness.

I'm never one to go searching for plot holes, and often get annoyed at people who desperately seek them out, but I'm just straight racking my brain trying to figure this one out.

I think the kick to wake everyone up from the level 2 dream is set up to be them landing/submerging in the water in level 1. I'm just confused why the falling sensation before hitting the water wouldn't wake Arthur up first.

steveportee wrote:

Jarmel wrote:Ok I think I figured this one out. Just as the van goes over the bridge, they show of Arthur with the headphones on, from the warning music earlier. The headphones most likely messed with Arthur's perception of motion as the 'sensation' of falling comes from your inner ears.

I not sure how wearing headphones would prevent you from feeling the sensation of falling. I think the headphones are meant to warn of an upcoming kick, but shouldn't interfere with the kick's effectiveness.

I'm never one to go searching for plot holes, and often get annoyed at people who desperately seek them out, but I'm just straight racking my brain trying to figure this one out.

I think the kick to wake everyone up from the level 2 dream is set up to be them landing/submerging in the water in level 1. I'm just confused why the falling sensation before hitting the water wouldn't wake Arthur up first.

You seem to have missed my post, but I'm guessing because Arthur knew it was coming he had the option to ignore it.

This is an interesting idea, and I'll think about it. The movie doesn't ever tell us that a kick can be ignored. Maybe someone highly trained like Arthur can postpone waking up? The movie always gave me the impression that waking up from a kick was unavoidable, an involuntary action. I don't remember it ever explaining that the dreamer has a choice of accepting the kick or not.

theweatherman wrote: You seem to have missed my post, but I'm guessing because Arthur knew it was coming he had the option to ignore it.

I was going to argue about the effectiveness of a kick but then I realized that Cobb resisted one in the opening scene. He had two kicks, one was the chair initially falling backwards and the second was him hitting the water. The problem here is that Cobb should have been in freefall for the short time period his body, in the chair, in Level 1 was going backwards.

Saito was shown physically wounded on both level 2 and 3. There are no actual physical anti gravity element in level 2, hence it can't be transferred to level 3?

As for the kick itself, I think it's more of the 'impact' felt upon 'falling over' feeling, as opposed to the 'falling' feeling. The moment the van 'hit' the river, that being the impact.

E.g. if one dream of skydriving, the dive itself won't wake you up, but the 'impact' of 'hitting the ground would =P

Jarmel wrote:
I was going to argue about the effectiveness of a kick but then I realized that Cobb resisted one in the opening scene. He had two kicks, one was the chair initially falling backwards and the second was him hitting the water. The problem here is that Cobb should have been in freefall for the short time period his body, in the chair, in Level 1 was going backwards.

That is true. Arthur woke up as the chair was falling during the demonstration of Yusuf's sedative, but in this scene, Cobb only woke up once submerged in water.
One idea: maybe a kick from the real world only requires the feeling of falling, while a kick from the dream world requires both the feeling of falling as well as imminent death at the end of the fall. Also explaining why Cobb's chair was positioned above the tub. He needed to fall into the tub, as well as feel the imminent threat of death from drowning.

Kind of a bizarre explanation, but it seems consistent with what happens in the movie. The only scene where the feeling of falling with no threat of death wakes a dreamer is waking someone from level 1 up to reality. Waking someone from a deep level of sleep up into another higher level seems to require both falling and death at the bottom of the drop.

Maybe. What do you guys think?

toyshy wrote:Saito was shown physically wounded on both level 2 and 3. There are no actual physical anti gravity element in level 2, hence it can't be transferred to level 3?

As for the kick itself, I think it's more of the 'impact' felt upon 'falling over' feeling, as opposed to the 'falling' feeling. The moment the van 'hit' the river, that being the impact.

E.g. if one dreaming of skydriving, the dive itself won't wake you up, but the 'impact' of 'hitting the ground would =P

It was transferred over to Level 3 in the form of an avalanche.

There was two kicks. Cobb after the avalanche mentions they missed the first kick, the van going over the side. The second kick was supposed to be the van hitting the water. To be fair though, they are somewhat loose with the "kick" term. Adriane mentions to Eames that the defibrillator would act as a kick to Fischer even though there would be no falling sensation.

toyshy wrote:Saito was shown physically wounded on both level 2 and 3. There are no actual physical anti gravity element in level 2, hence it can't be transferred to level 3?

As for the kick itself, I think it's more of the 'impact' felt upon 'falling over' feeling, as opposed to the 'falling' feeling. The moment the van 'hit' the river, that being the impact.

E.g. if one dream of skydriving, the dive itself won't wake you up, but the 'impact' of 'hitting the ground would =P

I'm still a little confused why Saito's wound transfers through multiple levels but weightlessness does not. I disagree with your statement that there is no actual physical anti gravity element in level 2, because we see them floating in the air. While that is an effect generated from level 1, the weightless feeling is still very real in level 2, and one would expect the dreamer who is asleep in level 2 to feel the weightlessness, causing a change in gravity in level 3.