steveportee wrote:Going by the logic set up throughout the film, what was kicking them back into the hotel was the feeling of falling in the hotel elevator.

I thought the elevator was kicking the team back to the van?

I think the reason it had to be successive kicks was because a kick from Level 1 would not awake someone who is active in Level 3, since they are still asleep in Level 2. My theory now is that the kicks had to be in order, otherwise you would kick completely unconscious people.

Nah the van hitting the water is what is supposed to wake them up back in the van.

Remember how throughout the entire movie before the final heist, kicks come from the level up where the person is sleeping, rather than from within the dream itself? SO to wake someone from level 2 up into level 1, the kick would have to come from level 1.

Which is why the finals sequence is confusing me, cuz it seems all these rules Chris Nolan spent so much time setting up get thrown out the window. The blowing up of the fortress seemed unnecessary when no one was planning on going into limbo. So why were they setting those charges?

steveportee wrote:Nah the van hitting the water is what is supposed to wake them up back in the van.

Yes but only once they have been kicked from the fortress to the hotel.

The blowing up of the fortress seemed unnecessary when no one was planning on going into limbo. So why were they setting those charges?

Doesn't Eames plan to to blow up the fort after Ariadne and Cobb follow Fischer?

But then of course we question why Ariadne would throw herself off the building.

Yeah there's either a hole either way, or many of us are missing key pieces of dialogue. It's like snapping several lego pieces together, but when you do, you always have one piece that won't fit.

Eames is already placing the charges before Ariadne comes up with the plan to go into limbo to get Fischer. Blowing up the fortress makes sense after Ariadne and Cobb go into limbo, but before hand, it doesn't. Blowing up the fortress doesn't kick them out of the level 3 snow level, that's what the elevator drop in level 2 does.

To be clear.
In level 3 fortress: kicked into level 2 by elevator drop
In level 2 hotel: kicked into level 1 by van hitting water.
In level 1 van/river area: woken up into reality by sedative wearing off.

What purpose does blowing the fort have? I feel like this must be a plot hole or an inconsistency in Nolan's logic, which shocks me considering how air tight his scripts usually are.

Then maybe the explosion was just a way to deal with Fischer's projections?

Man I'm convinced that Nolan messed up the logic for the sequence of kicks during the heist scene. The kick from level 2 dream into level 1 dream should be the van hitting the water. The kick from the level 3 dream into the level 2 dream should be the elevator falling.

So then, why is Eames setting charges to blow up the level 3 fortress before Ariadne decides to go after Fischer in the level 4 limbo? Then, to get out of the level 4 limbo, they all jump off the buildings, giving a sort of self kick.

This goes against the logic set up all throughout the film, where a kick is giving to the sleeping person in the level you want to kick them back up into.

So with this new logic of riding a wave of self kicks, then they are kicked out of level 4 by jumping, kicked out of level 3 by the explosion, kicked out of level 2 by the freefall, and now...we have an extra kick of the van landing in the water, which no longer makes sense.

My only conclusion is this sequence became so complex, that Nolan managed to confuse himself and got the logic of how a kick should work messed up.

Unless...
One possible theory: When riding a wave of kicks through multiple levels, the lowest level needs both a kick from within the dream, as well as a kick from above, in order to create the momentum to carry them through multiple levels quickly.

I wish the plan of the final heist was explained so I could confirm this idea.

My guess here is that if you go into limbo as a dreamer, as Ariadne did (so did Cobb), then you need to commit suicide AND get kicked from the level above.

The only problem with that is that it still doesn't explain why they were setting the charges in the hospital area before anyone decided to go into limbo.

AHH I need to figure this out so I won't be annoyed by a major plot confusion and I can go back to loving this movie.

Cilogy wrote:Then maybe the explosion was just a way to deal with Fischer's projections?

This makes sense. They knew Fischer's projection army was closing in on them, and they didn't know when Arthur's kick would come, so that was their plan to survive until the kick.