niniendowarrior wrote:I think there's already some good Nolan flicks that don't resonate with audiences... I've heard complaints about Prestige, The Dark Knight, and Batman Begins.

Personally, I find that Nolan's fall from grace happens when the studio force their way into Nolan's films. The overzealousness of pushing through 3D when Nolan isn't particularly comfortable yet with the quality of the process is one very real scenario I can see. If Nolan doesn't get his freedom, I think it will show in the final product.

You're right yes. If Nolan ever so happens to be got by the balls by a studio for whatever reason (for example he really really needs the money and services that studio or producer can offer) he becomes very depending on it in a very bad way. But first, for this to happen he needs to be in desperate need of this amount of money and he must be forced to work with an unforgiving studio.

These two things can happen to Nolan only if:
1. He decides to start a project that requires even higher budget than his projects so far and he will (which is both a good and a bad thing, because yes the project might turn out fantastic but... as we said, no one will give this money just for someone's promise or reputation).
2. He decides to start a project even more daring than his previous ones. Let's face it, no one ever thought Begins will be so good and TDK wouldn't be half as successful if it was done before begins (we're not talking about the story-line here, it's just that Begins revived the hope for the Batman franchise and made people want another Batnolan movie).

But what am I saying, every big-budget flick is daring, even if the movieplot itself is a potential success.

Making a film that doesn't reach the great heights of the directors previous work, should hardly be considered any sort of 'downfall'.

Memento was an incredible film by my own standards, and it seems from the critics point of view, however, again, in my own opinion and the opinion of critics, Insomnia was not of the same quality.

By the tone set in this thread, this could already be considered a 'downfall'. Granted it was earlier in Nolan's career.

My point being: Every director will hit top marks, only to not quite reach the same height with another film. It's just the nature of creation and experimentation within filmmaking.

They key to Nolan's success thus far is the story that he tells. His production and directing techniques fulfill those stories to grand heights.

Will his films always attain the same standard of quality as Inception? Perhaps not. But as long as he continues to push the envelope, I'm happy.

prince0gotham wrote:

niniendowarrior wrote:I think there's already some good Nolan flicks that don't resonate with audiences... I've heard complaints about Prestige, The Dark Knight, and Batman Begins.

Personally, I find that Nolan's fall from grace happens when the studio force their way into Nolan's films. The overzealousness of pushing through 3D when Nolan isn't particularly comfortable yet with the quality of the process is one very real scenario I can see. If Nolan doesn't get his freedom, I think it will show in the final product.

You're right yes. If Nolan ever so happens to be got by the balls by a studio for whatever reason (for example he really really needs the money and services that studio or producer can offer) he becomes very depending on it in a very bad way. But first, for this to happen he needs to be in desperate need of this amount of money and he must be forced to work with an unforgiving studio.

These two things can happen to Nolan only if:
1. He decides to start a project that requires even higher budget than his projects so far and he will (which is both a good and a bad thing, because yes the project might turn out fantastic but... as we said, no one will give this money just for someone's promise or reputation).
2. He decides to start a project even more daring than his previous ones. Let's face it, no one ever thought Begins will be so good and TDK wouldn't be half as successful if it was done before begins (we're not talking about the story-line here, it's just that Begins revived the hope for the Batman franchise and made people want another Batnolan movie).

But what am I saying, every big-budget flick is daring, even if the movieplot itself is a potential success.

You don't need an incredibly detailed scenario to see how Nolan can be pushed into something he's uncomfortable with. From the banter on 3D, Nolan speaks that if the audience wants it in 3D then he'll have to address it. With WB keen on leaping into this and if the crowd demands on it are way too great, Nolan will be pushed into doing this whether he likes it or not.

niniendowarrior wrote:You don't need an incredibly detailed scenario to see how Nolan can be pushed into something he's uncomfortable with. From the banter on 3D, Nolan speaks that if the audience wants it in 3D then he'll have to address it. With WB keen on leaping into this and if the crowd demands on it are way too great, Nolan will be pushed into doing this whether he likes it or not.

Well he's actually spoken about 3-D and says he's not against it in principle, but he'd want to be done WELL. I think he'll be able to compromise with WB when the time comes.

I'm pretty sure he's got a particular talent for sweet-talking, considering he managed to bag the Batman gig (with a lot of freedom) without a single action or comic book movie to his name.

Anita18 wrote:

niniendowarrior wrote:You don't need an incredibly detailed scenario to see how Nolan can be pushed into something he's uncomfortable with. From the banter on 3D, Nolan speaks that if the audience wants it in 3D then he'll have to address it. With WB keen on leaping into this and if the crowd demands on it are way too great, Nolan will be pushed into doing this whether he likes it or not.

Well he's actually spoken about 3-D and says he's not against it in principle, but he'd want to be done WELL. I think he'll be able to compromise with WB when the time comes.

I'm pretty sure he's got a particular talent for sweet-talking, considering he managed to bag the Batman gig (with a lot of freedom) without a single action or comic book movie to his name.

I have a feeling that he begrudgingly experimented with 3D because of the pressure WB put on him to do Inception in 3D. Him coming out and saying it wouldn't be too bad is probably him being political because he has no choice for the next Batman.

theweatherman wrote:

Anita18 wrote:Well he's actually spoken about 3-D and says he's not against it in principle, but he'd want to be done WELL. I think he'll be able to compromise with WB when the time comes.

I'm pretty sure he's got a particular talent for sweet-talking, considering he managed to bag the Batman gig (with a lot of freedom) without a single action or comic book movie to his name.

I have a feeling that he begrudgingly experimented with 3D because of the pressure WB put on him to do Inception in 3D. Him coming out and saying it wouldn't be too bad is probably him being political because he has no choice for the next Batman.

He actually said that they did try it for Inception and if they had enough time to do the post-production right, they would have done it.

The 3-D craze didn't start until after Avatar became a hit, which IIRC Inception had already finished shooting.

Nolan doesn't strike me as being all that political. He chooses words carefully sure, but I don't think he just says things to make other people happy. In fact, Wally Pfister claimed that Nolan "went ballistic" when he found out a visual crew member did IMAX tests with The Prestige because it cost so much and wasn't in the schedule. He then actually saw the amazing results and then was on board for doing TDK in IMAX.

So I think he does look at opportunities like that, and see how he could make them visually work.

He actually said that they did try it for Inception and if they had enough time to do the post-production right, they would have done it.

He didn't say that they would have done it if they had time. They tried out the 3D, but he didn't like it because it didn't meet his high standards.

I think the only reason why he is saying all these neutral comments about 3D is because he doesn't want to come off as a hater. As weatherman said, he's being political.

Anita18 wrote:

theweatherman wrote:I have a feeling that he begrudgingly experimented with 3D because of the pressure WB put on him to do Inception in 3D. Him coming out and saying it wouldn't be too bad is probably him being political because he has no choice for the next Batman.

He actually said that they did try it for Inception and if they had enough time to do the post-production right, they would have done it.

The 3-D craze didn't start until after Avatar became a hit, which IIRC Inception had already finished shooting.

Nolan doesn't strike me as being all that political. He chooses words carefully sure, but I don't think he just says things to make other people happy. In fact, Wally Pfister claimed that Nolan "went ballistic" when he found out a visual crew member did IMAX tests with The Prestige because it cost so much and wasn't in the schedule. He then actually saw the amazing results and then was on board for doing TDK in IMAX.

So I think he does look at opportunities like that, and see how he could make them visually work.

I know he has said he worked with post conversion to 3D, but it doesn't change the fact that I don't think he did it of his own volition. I have a feeling it was a suggestion from WB. Every other studio has pushed for their films to be converted however because of Nolan's clout I think WB merely suggested.

Nolan did some tests to satisfy WB and then said, "Nope." However it makes sense that WB would demand that Batman be in 3D because of the amount of extra income that would provide. Thus Nolan (who has said in the past how the picture quality of 3D isn't very good) did his best to diffuse his past comments about it because he knows he is going to have to do it at some point.

Since making the comment about testing 3D I have read interviews in which he has said that he still doesn't like it that much, but will do it if that's what the audience demands.

akv1984 wrote:He didn't say that they would have done it if they had time. They tried out the 3D, but he didn't like it because it didn't meet his high standards.

I think the only reason why he is saying all these neutral comments about 3D is because he doesn't want to come off as a hater. As weatherman said, he's being political.

Well, the quote from LATimes was this:

Nolan said "Inception," the July 16 dream-world heist film starring Leonardo DiCaprio, could have ended up as a 3-D release. "We did tests on 'Inception' with the different post-conversion processes, and they all went very well. It's quite easy to do, in fact. But it takes a little time, and we didn't have time to do it to the standards that I would be happy with."

So we're both right in a way.

Thing is, it doesn't seem that Nolan is steadfastly against post-conversion 3-D as he is with shooting and editing digitally. He has continually refused to do a DI. Wally Pfister will happily rant on all day against shooting digital if you let him. They are the ONLY people in Hollywood still physically cutting their film. He has refused to change that. I bet that they will finance the splicing tape industry all by their lonesomes if they have to.

Nolan compromising on 3-D won't be a "downfall" of his. He clearly dislikes shooting digital, so if he'll do it, it'll be post-conversion. Not a huge deal. The guy's got an eye for quality, he'll make sure it's good.

I just don't see the situation akin to Sony strongarming Raimi into putting Venom into SM3. Nolan will compromise on certain things, but he seems to be stubborn on others. I like that he's open-minded about 3-D, even though he generally dislikes it. I don't picture him throwing a hissy fit and turning out a bad movie just because he was made to do it in 3-D. That has nothing to do with script or plot or characters, which Nolan excels at.

Yeah I am not worried about the quality of the Nolan's 3D because I know he won't produce something below his standards and if Batman 3 is to be 3D he will plan plenty of time to do the post production to conversion.