Do we really exist? Is the world we're living in real?

A place for more serious off-topic discussion and debates.
Posts: 13622
Joined: June 2009
Location: Florida
Jackson wrote:Exactly. We don't really observe evolution. We just provide a plausible explanation
No, we can. Scientists do it every day. Regular people see it every day, but don't think twice about it. Every time a hawk swoops down in the field behind my house, its killing off the slowest and weakest mouse, leaving the stronger and faster ones to breed stronger and faster mice. And the hawks that starve because they can't catch mice, they die off and the fast and agile hawks breed more.

Just because you can't live for millions of years to see everything happen, doesn't mean you can't observe it.

Posts: 21411
Joined: June 2010
Location: All-Hail Master Virgo, Censor of NolanFans
chee wrote:
Jackson wrote:Exactly. We don't really observe evolution. We just provide a plausible explanation
No, we can. Scientists do it every day. Regular people see it every day, but don't think twice about it. Every time a hawk swoops down in the field behind my house, its killing off the slowest and weakest mouse, leaving the stronger and faster ones to breed stronger and faster mice. And the hawks that starve because they can't catch mice, they die off and the fast and agile hawks breed more.

You do it as well, as a human being. You'll probably attracted to women with nice skin, soft lips, large breasts and hips with a small waist (if not, my point will still stand). Humans go through sexual selection all the time, whether or not you get to have offspring with this woman is a whole different story though. ;)

Just because you can't live for millions of years to see everything happen, doesn't mean you can't observe it.
Still you don't have valid proofs about lots of things. Aren't you the one who said "if you don't have proofs then it's just a theory" ? :roll:

I'm not defending Jackson at all. I'm defending the idea that evolution is a fact but what WE KNOW about evolution aren't all facts. Most of them are assumptions, clues, ideas, theories and so on. They think that, based on some mathematical estimation/calculation, something might have happened at one point. There is no valid proof of that though. So, based on your understanding of what a theory is... why would I believe in some mathematical calculations that might not be correct? ... Don't forget that every century passes, the known facts of the last century always change because we find out that those before us were wrong about something or forgot some important aspect. Evolution is relative just like History.

I think you do the same mistake others did who failed to give proper answers. You trust too much in the power and the intelligence of humans in the current state. You trust too much in what some scientists say about certain things without having solid/valid proofs. You trust too much in human's current knowledge. That's a little bit selfish and communist I could say.

Posts: 15390
Joined: June 2010
Location: You're pretty good.
But we were arguing about whether it exists or whether it doesn't, not about whether we know everything about it. That's why each time you write a 'some-of-it-is-still-only-theory'-post you sound like a fool that's strafing from the topic.

RIFA wrote:That's a little bit selfish and communist I could say.
:lol:

Posts: 13943
Joined: June 2009
Location: La La Land
I'll reiterate what Prince0Gotham stated. RIFA, you're arguing about a completely different thing altogether that is somewhat irrelevant to the "debate" that is currently in process between Jackson, Chee, Prince0Gotham, Solo2001, and myself. Maybe this arguement will evolve ( :D ) into that debate later, but right now you're points feel forced.
Last edited by Crazy Eight on December 27th, 2010, 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Posts: 13622
Joined: June 2009
Location: Florida
I don't have the proof on me, since I'm not a university or a museum.

But yes, there is proof.

Just for the example, look at us humans. You can look at the fossil records, our DNA records, our skeleton systems, and our biological and geographical evidence.

This is "Lucy", a fossilized skeleton:
Image
She is the oldest fossil of an up-right animal that resembles both the great apes and humans.

DNA records, 96% of our DNA is almost identical to chimpanzees. And again, our morphed chromosome matches two of their chromosomes. DNA records also show that people from the Britain area have Neanderthal DNA, showing that humans once crossbred between those two species.

Our skeleton system is very close to the great apes, aside from our upright posture and larger brain capacity.

Biological and geographical evidence shows that humans came out of Africa, the same continent where other great apes are found.

There is also proof in vestigial organs. Humans still have tail bones.

And whales still have their bones for hindlegs:
Image


And yes, I trust science and I trust human intelligence. You want to know why? Because thousands of scientists peer review each other, they critique each other, they find holes in each others' arguments, and they bicker back and forth like a disgruntled married couple. Science is testing, and testing, and more testing. Science, real science, is not one person getting an idea and that one person proclaiming it as fact. It starts as a hypothesis, it goes through thousands of harsh testing, it needs to be backed up by evidence, facts, etc. and it goes through peer reviews and critiques.

Posts: 591
Joined: May 2010
chee wrote:
Our skeleton system is very close to the great apes, aside from our upright posture and larger brain capacity.
Biological and geographical evidence shows that humans came out of Africa, the same continent where other great apes are found.
What gave humans this upright posture and larger brain capacity? Where did it come from? The environment? If both apes and humans lived in Africa as you claim, does that mean that humans were dumb at the beginning of their evolution? I wanna know how this change in brain capacity came about if humans and apes were living in the same environment.

Posts: 15390
Joined: June 2010
Location: You're pretty good.
Jackson wrote: What gave humans this upright posture and larger brain capacity? Where did it come from? The environment? If both apes and humans lived in Africa as you claim, does that mean that humans were dumb at the beginning of their evolution? I wanna know how this change in brain capacity came about if humans and apes were living in the same environment.
Ok, this is too much.
You're an idiot.

Posts: 591
Joined: May 2010
prince0gotham wrote:
You're an idiot.
No. Actually you are because you are not capable of disproving my argument. Tell me where did the human's ability to critically think come from?

Posts: 13622
Joined: June 2009
Location: Florida
Jackson wrote:What gave humans this upright posture and larger brain capacity? Where did it come from? The environment? If both apes and humans lived in Africa as you claim, does that mean that humans were dumb at the beginning of their evolution? I wanna know how this change in brain capacity came about if humans and apes were living in the same environment.
They lived in the same continent, not the same environment. Early "humans" left the trees while the early apes stayed in the trees. And when I say "left", I don't mean they just rose out of their tree one day and decided to leave. This probably happened over a course of thousands of years, animals split up into different groups and families and relocate into different areas all the time.

Humans would kill each other for resources, or be killed by other animals. The smarter humans, the ones that figured out that a net can trap more fish than just throwing a rock into the river lived. The dumber ones, died. This also applies to the upright posture; upright humans could build tools, shelters, and kill with much more ease. Sexual selection also applies to human evolution, and upright posture was probably attractive to the opposite sex.

For years, humans have been relatively "dumb". It's only recently (15,000 or so years ago) that critical thinking became the norm.

The early apes continued on their path of evolution, dwelling in the trees and surviving to become what we now know them to be. And the early humans went on their path of evolution, eventually leaving Africa.

And no, this is not my "claim". It's well-acknowledged information in the science field.
Last edited by chee on December 27th, 2010, 6:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Post Reply