It still surprises me that people have a hard time feeling empathy for Sansa.
I really liked that Daenerys listened to Tyrion's advice. The Targaryen intensity is in her but it's being used well with listening to people more experienced with ruling.
But Jon vs Daenerys? How? Those two characters are basically the main characters of the show and I don't think one has to turn out to be the protagonist and the other the antagonist just because of it. Neither of them show signs of becoming the antagonist anyway.
book spoilers
I do wonder what Euron is going to do once he sees that Daenerys has made an alliance with Yara and Theon. He either has got to have the dragonbinder, which I highly doubt, or the Valyrian armor... Not that it's going to do him much good though. It can still be taken from him and probably won't save him from dragon fire, may he end up getting Quentyn's arc lol.
Nomis wrote:It still surprises me that people have a hard time feeling empathy for Sansa.
I really liked that Daenerys listened to Tyrion's advice. The Targaryen intensity is in her but it's being used well with listening to people more experienced with ruling.
But Jon vs Daenerys? How? Those two characters are basically the main characters of the show and I don't think one has to turn out to be the protagonist and the other the antagonist just because of it. Neither of them show signs of becoming the antagonist anyway.
book spoilers
I do wonder what Euron is going to do once he sees that Daenerys has made an alliance with Yara and Theon. He either has got to have the dragonbinder, which I highly doubt, or the Valyrian armor... Not that it's going to do him much good though. It can still be taken from him and probably won't save him from dragon fire, may he end up getting Quentyn's arc lol.
Allstar wrote:Tyrion is okay with her killing millions of innocents in Westeros though?
He probably thinks there's a reasonable limit where that's justifiable if it means having a peaceful, intelligent and noble ruler. And that he'll be there to keep her on course.
-Vader
Why can't the same be said for the slave cities instead of leaving then in ruin without any sort of infrastructure. Doubt this will change in one more ep but the ending of Mereen plot is just how it started. Pretty underwhelming.
Nomis wrote:It still surprises me that people have a hard time feeling empathy for Sansa.
I really liked that Daenerys listened to Tyrion's advice. The Targaryen intensity is in her but it's being used well with listening to people more experienced with ruling.
But Jon vs Daenerys? How? Those two characters are basically the main characters of the show and I don't think one has to turn out to be the protagonist and the other the antagonist just because of it. Neither of them show signs of becoming the antagonist anyway.
book spoilers
I do wonder what Euron is going to do once he sees that Daenerys has made an alliance with Yara and Theon. He either has got to have the dragonbinder, which I highly doubt, or the Valyrian armor... Not that it's going to do him much good though. It can still be taken from him and probably won't save him from dragon fire, may he end up getting Quentyn's arc lol.
Nomis wrote:It still surprises me that people have a hard time feeling empathy for Sansa.
I really liked that Daenerys listened to Tyrion's advice. The Targaryen intensity is in her but it's being used well with listening to people more experienced with ruling.
But Jon vs Daenerys? How? Those two characters are basically the main characters of the show and I don't think one has to turn out to be the protagonist and the other the antagonist just because of it. Neither of them show signs of becoming the antagonist anyway.
book spoilers
I do wonder what Euron is going to do once he sees that Daenerys has made an alliance with Yara and Theon. He either has got to have the dragonbinder, which I highly doubt, or the Valyrian armor... Not that it's going to do him much good though. It can still be taken from him and probably won't save him from dragon fire, may he end up getting Quentyn's arc lol.
did you actually read my post or nah
-Vader
Yes I did.
Tyrion literally talked her down from annihilating entire cities of people. From the point of view of the civilians in the cities she is the antagonist. I don't think it's unreasonable that as she becomes more and more of a ruthless Targaryen the likelihood of her actually carrying something like that increases. And I don't think Jon's noble honorable Stark heart will stand for it. It's pretty easy to see how they could have a significant conflict amidst the White Walker stuff.
Allstar wrote:
Why can't the same be said for the slave cities instead of leaving then in ruin without any sort of infrastructure. Doubt this will change in one more ep but the ending of Mereen plot is just how it started. Pretty underwhelming.
There's a black and white difference between leaving the Middle East in ruins after an occupation to "liberate the people" and dropping the Atom Bomb. You're confusing what you want to happen with what the writer's are intending. We're not meant to think Dany's a good ruler. She's not a good ruler. She's a shit ruler. We're supposed to see her weaknesses leading starkly contrasted to her skill as a conquerer, and being a reasonable leader of people certainly involves making sure it's in a good place when you're leaving. If Dany leaves the city in ruin (which I'm not sure she will to the degree you mean—probably will leave Missandei and Grey Worm to rule) it's not out of character. She is NOT meant to be crazy over the top likable. It's meant to be a little uncomfortable, a little ambiguous.
The ending of episode 6 you complained so much about with her giving that speech? I read the scene as showing her being....less and less of a reasonable leader. It's not meant to be a cheer worthy thing. And what do you know, Jack Bender said the exact same thing, and since he's the one who directed the scene...
"She's not Hitler at Nuremberg... but she's got the power."
That theme was very, very clearly explored more last episode.
Vader182 wrote:
did you actually read my post or nah
-Vader
Yes I did.
Tyrion literally talked her down from annihilating entire cities of people. From the point of view of the civilians in the cities she is the antagonist. I don't think it's unreasonable that as she becomes more and more of a ruthless Targaryen the likelihood of her actually carrying something like that increases. And I don't think Jon's noble honorable Stark heart will stand for it. It's pretty easy to see how they could have a significant conflict amidst the White Walker stuff.
Allstar wrote:
Why can't the same be said for the slave cities instead of leaving then in ruin without any sort of infrastructure. Doubt this will change in one more ep but the ending of Mereen plot is just how it started. Pretty underwhelming.
There's a black and white difference between leaving the Middle East in ruins after an occupation to "liberate the people" and dropping the Atom Bomb. You're confusing what you want to happen with what the writer's are intending. We're not meant to think Dany's a good ruler. She's not a good ruler. She's a shit ruler. We're supposed to see her weaknesses leading starkly contrasted to her skill as a conquerer, and being a reasonable leader of people certainly involves making sure it's in a good place when you're leaving. If Dany leaves the city in ruin (which I'm not sure she will to the degree you mean—probably will leave Missandei and Grey Worm to rule) it's not out of character. She is NOT meant to be crazy over the top likable. It's meant to be a little uncomfortable, a little ambiguous.
The ending of episode 6 you complained so much about with her giving that speech? I read the scene as showing her being....less and less of a reasonable leader. It's not meant to be a cheer worthy thing. And what do you know, Jack Bender said the exact same thing, and since he's the one who directed the scene...
"She's not Hitler at Nuremberg... but she's got the power."
That theme was very, very clearly explored more last episode.
-Vader
Tyrion was able to talk her down because she gave him room to do so. "You don't agree." is what she said and from then on she only listened and ended up agreeing with him. Daenerys wasn't a born leader nor has she learned how to rule, she rules with Tyrion and as of now Tyrion is the one who rules. Just like Tywin was when he was Hand of the King (and Tyrion himself in season2). Daenerys is the conqueror, the thing she's good at is showing strength and she's very powerful now.
Daenerys was reeling in the Dothraki. Like she said in her speech, a Khal (in this case Khaleesi) chooses three blood riders but she chose them all. She already had them behind her but truly reeled them in with that speech. Again, it was showing strength that got her to convince them. Like said in season 1, the Dothraki follow strength. After Khal Drogo got injured and even more so when he was catatonic, his khalasar left him.
The show isn't establishing her as an antagonist but I do like that they show her Targaryen ruthlessness. She isn't her father, as she said in the scene with Yara nor is she Viserys.
I get the point of the Mereen plot from Dany's character perspective that does not mean 3 seasons of it was not tedious.
lol @ Nomis though. The groundwork has been very clearly laid for Dany to be antagonistic but Weiss's recent comments have me dubious they will follow through because yay Dany.
I feel Yara will go the Greyjoy way and ultimately betray Dany.
Book Sansa is still at the Gates of the Moon eating lemon cakes with Sweetrobin, who wets the bed and suffers from seizures.
Sansa has come a long way from the naive girl believing some romantic stories of honor and nobility. Look at all she once held in high regard: Ser Loras, Joffrey and Cersei. Or, those she thought were her "knight" sent to rescue her like Ser Dantos or Petyr.
Sansa is the Elizabeth Tudor of the story and will ultimately sit the Iron Throne.
Allstar wrote:I get the point of the Mereen plot from Dany's character perspective that does not mean 3 seasons of it was not tedious.
lol @ Nomis though. The groundwork has been very clearly laid for Dany to be antagonistic but Weiss's recent comments have me dubious they will follow through because yay Dany.
Of course it was tedious it was some of the weakest stuff in the entire show. I'm just saying that I think the way it's paid off this season, for me, is enormously satisfying and this is why. A lot of the dominoes are coming down in a way that I think is really compelling even if the stacking of those dominoes varied from exciting to boring to stupid. I truly don't think Dany's been as dynamic and interesting since Season 1.
It feels like they're nailing the "big stuff" (Arya aside, Jesus) while really struggling with the A to B. It's really strange how the quality can teeter so much writing for the same characters. In this episode you get great character writing all around and mythologizing comments like Jon becoming a legendary swordsman, and yet, a few ago the wildlings collectively thought Jon was "some kind of god." Tyrion goes from mostly drinking and making cringey jokes to having nothing but terrific lines and smart characterization.
And ^
I wouldn't be shocked if Sansa wound up ruling but likely at great personal cost. She, Dany, and most other characters will become more and more "compromised" and that is what Martin will ultimately make as his final bittersweet statement of humanity.
Allstar wrote:I get the point of the Mereen plot from Dany's character perspective that does not mean 3 seasons of it was not tedious.
lol @ Nomis though. The groundwork has been very clearly laid for Dany to be antagonistic but Weiss's recent comments have me dubious they will follow through because yay Dany.
That's a necessary evil. She was stuck on Essos waiting for the rest of the story to be ready for her arrival. Overall it has been allright for the most part but it's time to go.
