Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) DEUX YOU BLEED?

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Back.

Movie is flawed (it's too comicbookish for the large screen and it has continuity issues that can be solved to a degree by the extended cut) but it has so many good things... I'm pissed and excited at the same time for the future of this cinematic universe. Dying to see the extended cut now.

Will see it again tomorrow. There's something about this movie that pulls me in. It's so fucking good in a way but it also misses a few clicks.

Better than Man of Steel for sure and I like that movie. Will provide a rating after my second viewing.

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JayCificity wrote:Jesus, dude! Really? That's your conclusion?
Did you not see the look on Batfleck's face? It ain't just the name! That was when shit hit the fan for batman. The entire foundation , the sole fucking reason for the the existence of Batman was that he didn't want Marthas to die because of some fucked up psychopath's wet dream of meeting means to their ends. That was when it hit the Bats that he's the Joe fuckin Chill of Clark Kent. So, he saw this as a way of redemption and his chance to save a Martha, or maybe something any ordinary person who has seen their parents killed right in front of their own little eyes would dream of, being powerful enough to save them. Which is why he made sure he's the one to do it instead of Supes himself.

Am I reading too much into this? Fuck no! And honestly, if you fight me on this, I honestly don't wanna. So let me enjoy my movie and you go back to your movies where you see connecting dots about who's someone who or some shit as your little fun-activity. I'm out.
My problem with it is the execution. One can easily rationalize that Batman simply started to see Superman as a person (as opposed to the animal/creature he considered him before) but it's done all very quickly and it seems that the name of Supes mom is more important than the fact that Supes has a mom whom he loves and wants to save (thus breaking Batman's philosophy that he was a souless alien).

It's not necessarily a bad message but it's sloppily exectued and when this particular message has to basically solve the primary conflict your movie is based on you can't afford to be sloppy, specially if you've used it to sidestep what are arguably more interesting ideological conflicts.
Last edited by didich on March 25th, 2016, 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Someone two pages back I think mentioned how "This Is My World" is a powerful track and I agree. Especially when it's used in the film
Superman saying his goodbyes to the world and Lois had me pretty choked up

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One issue I have with this that really pisses me off is the product placement of the heroes themselves. There's some shots that don't make sense. I mentioned years ago in a review I wrote for the awful 'The Tourist' how the Angelina Jolie shots were Vogue like. Well, some of the shots in here of the superheroes, especially containing the Holy Trinity, are straight from Entertainment Weekly lol. It's cringe and it doesn't have a place in the film as it breaks momentum.

This is what I don't understand about Snyder... why slo-mo in the middle of the fight to give me a 5 seconds shot of the Trinity staring at Doomsday. Just fucking why man... The film is very comicbookish but you can easily avoid being THIS comicbookish and make it all awkward on the big screen. That shit works only in the comics.

#rant

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Crazy Eight wrote:
JayCificity wrote:Jesus, dude! Really? That's your conclusion?
Did you not see the look on Batfleck's face? It ain't just the name! That was when shit hit the fan for batman. The entire foundation , the sole fucking reason for the the existence of Batman was that he didn't want Marthas to die because of some fucked up psychopath's wet dream of meeting means to their ends. That was when it hit the Bats that he's the Joe fuckin Chill of Clark Kent. So, he saw this as a way of redemption and his chance to save a Martha, or maybe something any ordinary person who has seen their parents killed right in front of their own little eyes would dream of, being powerful enough to save them. Which is why he made sure he's the one to do it instead of Supes himself.

Am I reading too much into this? Fuck no! And honestly, if you fight me on this, I honestly don't wanna. So let me enjoy my movie and you go back to your movies where you see connecting dots about who's someone who or some shit as your little fun-activity. I'm out.
Bruce not wanting to "kill a Martha" is random and baffling. It'd be a different story if him hearing that was just something that gave him enough pause to hear reason from Superman, but it wasn't; it was just left at "dude my mom's name was Martha and she died so now all my ideological reasons for hating you are gone". It's just a sloppy, pseudo-Freudian narrative device that's implemented in a shockingly poor way.
didich wrote:
JayCificity wrote:Jesus, dude! Really? That's your conclusion?
Did you not see the look on Batfleck's face? It ain't just the name! That was when shit hit the fan for batman. The entire foundation , the sole fucking reason for the the existence of Batman was that he didn't want Marthas to die because of some fucked up psychopath's wet dream of meeting means to their ends. That was when it hit the Bats that he's the Joe fuckin Chill of Clark Kent. So, he saw this as a way of redemption and his chance to save a Martha, or maybe something any ordinary person who has seen their parents killed right in front of their own little eyes would dream of, being powerful enough to save them. Which is why he made sure he's the one to do it instead of Supes himself.

Am I reading too much into this? Fuck no! And honestly, if you fight me on this, I honestly don't wanna. So let me enjoy my movie and you go back to your movies where you see connecting dots about who's someone who or some shit as your little fun-activity. I'm out.
My problem with it is the execution. One can easily rationalize that Batman simply started to see Superman as a person (as opposed to the animal/creature he considered him before) but it's done all very quickly and it seems that the name of Supes mom is more important than the fact that Supes has a mom whom he loves and wants to save (thus breaking Batman's philosophy that he was a souless alien).

It's not necessarily a bad message but it's sloppily exectued and when this particular message has to basically solve the primary conflict your movie is based on you can't afford to be sloppy, specially if you've used it to sidestep what are arguably more interesting ideological conflicts.

Sloppiness, I agree with that. But my question remains, there is actually, imo, no other way I can see their fight end. Not in a way that makes sense to me, anyway.
Not unless one of them dies.

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What ruined that for me is
Amy Adams yelling HIS MOTHERS NAME IS MARTHAAAAAAAAAAAA

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Nails it.

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A fucking dreadful, head-shaker of a film. Just... dire throughout. I don't think I can recall a film of this supposed calibre being so horrendously assembled and conceived; I just can't get my head around it. The premise of Bruce Wayne being outraged by the goings on in Metropolis from the end of the previous film is wonderful, and then it is completely and totally squandered in every way imaginable. It makes the first act of Man of Steel looks like the first act of L.A. Confidential by comparison - but the problem is much the same, i.e. what do these characters want and why? Bruce is upset, but Superman is... well, he wants to go on being Superman maybe. He doesn't really have a goal. He doesn't really have any fallout from the previous film, from killing Zod, he's just... Superman. Lois is investigating something, Lex... uh, Lex wants what? Does he have any real sort of gambit, any real grudge against Superman? The film spends so much time having him spout Terrio's hilariously lofty, student-level dialogue without giving him a boiled-down motive or quantifiable goal. This is poor for a 2.5 hour film.

The airs that this fucking film puts on are absolutely incredible - we've got this whole Holly Hunter subplot meant to suggest that we're still in this Nolanised world of real consequences and "What would actually" happen but as soon as this is jettisoned we're into cartoons in a cartoon graveyard - there is no modulation here but I guess there doesn't need to be; I would defy anyone into being suckered by the early suggestion that this is a serious film. I just don't see how you can with a film that so blatantly has its structure out of whack that it conceives of bloody dream sequences, the second of which is a set-piece (cause we need one see) which might be effective in giving us insight into Batman's mindset if it weren't so bloody naff, and the third one which might have a payoff in a film 3 films down the line!!! Cool! Unless they were the same dream. I honestly can't remember anymore.

If Ledger's Joker were sicced on this mob, he would have retired on grounds of boredom - no one in this film is any damn fun whatsoever (I'm tickled by the praise for Wonder Woman, who is literally nothing more than girl with sword and rockin' electric guitar motif) - also he might have thought the vacancy had been filled by Eisenberg, who seems to think he's playing the Joker and would be forgiven, actually, given the jar of piss sequence (which is one of the few moments that has any level of suspense of interest). If we must be totally free of irony we should be given something to digest and there is absolutely nothing to work with here, no comment on the characters that we haven't heard before, no slant that provides a fresh interpretation, no patina, no personality -- it's actually at a prequel level of palor when it comes to watching these players mill about, and I include Irons in this who is without a doubt the lamest Alfred ever. If you laughed at anything he said you are a Wrong Person and need to rescind your breathing right forthwith.

Given what the film looked like and who was cast I thought it might wind up being at the MoS level perhaps, which is to say not a good film at all but with occasional entertainment value and some slick visuals, but somehow Snyder regressing back to his Larry Fong comfort zone has not helped him one bit - I don't even think it's as visually strong as Sucker Punch to be honest, which is an indictment. At the end of the day I've paid to see too many of his films, so the joke is on me, but even Michael Bay, at his most fundamental core, can tell a story. This guy just plain can't, not to save his life. WB putting all their faith in this guy would be like if Disney and Marvel decided that... actually, no, they're yet to hire anyone as incompetent as Snyder - I was going to say Alan Taylor but basic storytelling isn't really his problem.

I see a Birdman clip was used earlier in the thread; I would have gone for the "cultural genocide" bit. I've been a bit outspoken in defending the genre of comic book films - I think they are just as good as the B-movie adventure serials or Westerns or swashbucklers or whatever that Hollywood used to churn out and have their place, but when you have something like this, totally free of irony, wit, or basic storytelling fundamentals, and it (inevitably) makes a ton of money, then that's quite sad. But then I'm probably mad; I loved Singer's Superman.

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I feel like we live in an age of reviews and criticism in that if one critic or fan makes a funny nitpick joke about the film everyone thinks they have to bring up that same point in their review to satisfy that joke that everyone knows. After reading many reviews and the YouTube reviewers a lot of them make the same type of nitpick "jokes" that I noticed.

Also, do people really NOT want a final action sequence in a fucking SUPERHERO movie?? I honestly believe the third act is when everything is flowing the best and the disjointed-ness is gone. We finally get the fight, why they are fighting, why they
team up
and who they are fighting after. How is that a mess at the end compared to the middle act that is all over the place?
Last edited by xWhereAmI? on March 25th, 2016, 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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There are two days since I watch the film and I still don't know either I loved it or hated it. There were many great things, as well as many bad things. I loved Affleck's performance, I hated Eisenberg's, I loved directing, I hated the script, I loved the special/visual effects, I hated the editing. Still I loved the music, but it's Zimmer so not surprising at all.

But, again, the script was a mess, and even Transcendence had its moments comparing to BvS's plot.

I think I'll just stop on the fact that I liked it. Would rewatch in on the weekend.

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