Master Virgo wrote: ↑

August 15th, 2018, 3:24 am

Honestly I'm not that big a fan of the original. It's a gorgeous film, but none of the songs are that memorable, the villain is weak, the sidekick is barely ever funny and the third act is pretty bad. Not one of Disney's masterpieces by a long shot.£

Pretty much. And yet it oddly has a better reputation than a far better film around the same time, Hunchback. Go figure.

ArmandFancypants wrote: ↑

August 16th, 2018, 11:06 am

Master Virgo wrote: ↑

August 15th, 2018, 3:24 am

Honestly I'm not that big a fan of the original. It's a gorgeous film, but none of the songs are that memorable, the villain is weak, the sidekick is barely ever funny and the third act is pretty bad. Not one of Disney's masterpieces by a long shot.£

Pretty much. And yet it oddly has a better reputation than a far better film around the same time, Hunchback. Go figure.

Hunchback is terrible. The animation has no depth (apart from money Dame shots and the festival), the comic relief gargoyles are pathetic in comparison with the best, the songs are forgettable (aside from Hellfire of course) and most importantly Hugo’s original tone clashes with Disney’s intention to make another fluff piece for kids. That movie has every right to be put under mediocre or under category. I was there day one and nostalgia factor never got to me upon several rewatches, most recent last month actually. Mulan has a classic story that just works, much like Moses in Prince of Egypt, it’s practically built for the big screen.

The original Mulan is an example of literally a perfect animated Disney film for the first two-thirds that completely falls apart into a farce for the last act. What they get away with showing and talking about in the film is huge stuff to introduce to kids and its really admirable how tight and dark the film gets. Then it goes down the toilet.

And I'm with Armand. Hunchback rules.

Hunchback is not terrible. It may not be entirely kid-friendly (that opening terrified me as a kid) but it's not a bad film.

Aside from the tonal clash that results from the talking gargoyles, The Hunchback of Notre Dame is actually quite excellent, though I only watched the German dub, which provides excellent voice acting and the animation is also stellar, especially the details on the cathedral and for a film aimed at children it goes to some very dark and challenging places, especially with the way it characterizes Frollo as an evil man in a way that's a close to realistic as an animated film of this kind allows. Now, I know people who love Victor Hugo's novel will find many faults with this adaptation and yes, the importance of architecture is a big part of the novel and that is definitely not at the forefront of the Disney film but for what it is, I enjoy it quite a lot and it has one of the best Disney ost.

Mulan I also only ever watch in German. It is one of my favourite Disney films precisely because the villain is a barely 1-dimensional character and not in the movie that much, which means he does not steal the show and the protagonist remains centre-stage, which this story requires. I also liked the animation quite a lot and there are truly epic moments like the charge of the Huns in the mountains for instance. Aside from the fact that in terms of the premise they would have likely fought the Mongols instead of the Huns, I think this is an excellent animated feature.

m4st4 wrote: ↑

August 16th, 2018, 11:36 am

ArmandFancypants wrote: ↑

August 16th, 2018, 11:06 am

Master Virgo wrote: ↑

August 15th, 2018, 3:24 am

Honestly I'm not that big a fan of the original. It's a gorgeous film, but none of the songs are that memorable, the villain is weak, the sidekick is barely ever funny and the third act is pretty bad. Not one of Disney's masterpieces by a long shot.£

Pretty much. And yet it oddly has a better reputation than a far better film around the same time, Hunchback. Go figure.

Hunchback is terrible. The animation has no depth (apart from money Dame shots and the festival), the comic relief gargoyles are pathetic in comparison with the best, the songs are forgettable (aside from Hellfire of course) and most importantly Hugo’s original tone clashes with Disney’s intention to make another fluff piece for kids. That movie has every right to be put under mediocre or under category. I was there day one and nostalgia factor never got to me upon several rewatches, most recent last month actually. Mulan has a classic story that just works, much like Moses in Prince of Egypt, it’s practically built for the big screen.

No.

Prince of Egypt doesn't really work though. It's the story of a prophet who advocates for an infant killing god. You just cannot make a heroic tale out of that bullshit.£

Master Virgo wrote: ↑

August 17th, 2018, 10:32 am

Prince of Egypt doesn't really work though. It's the story of a prophet who advocates for an infant killing god. You just cannot make a heroic tale out of that bullshit.£

It works as a timeless story with countless epic story bits that survived the test of time. Memorable clash between two brothers, seeking one true self in the unknown, the cruelty in both sides. Prince of Egypt was one of the last representatives of hand drawn animation, it had symbolism even on editing front, Zimmer delivering the goods; it also works as a solid reminder that an Old Testament god is a hypocrite seeking vengeance (an eye for an eye sort of philosophy). Old Testament stories are mostly bullshit but it's a 3400 year old bullshit so we kind of knew that already? But they are also mythological and myths created the storytelling as we know it today. Prince of Egypt works on a primal level, not as a lesson in history or a lesson in morality. Otherwise we'd have to sit down and talk about the slaughter of the innocent children and how it's not a good way to show kindness in any culture whatsoever.


Edit: I'd like to see Mulan or Notre Dame, for that matter, matching this scene, let alone the entire movie. And I can find qualities in Notre Dame, for sure, and I've tried so many times in the past. Just not enough to put it under countless others true Disney classics. No matter the personal feelings, I feel the consensus on Dame is pretty clear nowadays - a tonal clash that didn't work the way it was intended. If you're into romanticism there's hardly much in it that I can recommend as a history or literature lesson, if you're into pure Disney - there's still better out there. One thing I'll give it though, it's a poignant tale about diversity and hate, and how it can consume us completely. I just wish they've done it, you know, better... and prettier (I stand by my opinion that the animation is subpar for Disney).🕷

I also really like that particualr scene. But Hellfire tops it for me.£

Master Virgo wrote: ↑

August 17th, 2018, 11:00 am

I also really like that particualr scene. But Hellfire tops it for me.£

Dude, I adore Hellfire. To a point that it's an inside musical cue between me and bros.🕷