I'm curious to see what Serkis does with the character and I know he'll do a great job, but until then, I can't really see it.

My concern is that with so many characters being used in this film, the audience might not get a great sense of many of them because none of them might have much screentime.

I'm guessing that the audience isn't supposed to get a great sense of many of them, and the characters are mostly only there to serve the plot. Although with characters like Riddler and Penguin there's not much sense to get in the first place in my view.

Could have done without Alfred but let's see if Serkis and Reeves give the audience something they have never seen before.

There's a difference between having too many characters and not utilizing each character with the story. The multiple villains failed in Spider-Man 3 because they all had a major arc, Nolan's Batman trilogy used multiple villains in each film too and that worked out more than fine. I think Reeves is capable of getting the most out of each character, no matter how small their parts in the story are.

Nomis wrote: ↑

November 15th, 2019, 10:22 am

There's a difference between having too many characters and not utilizing each character with the story. The multiple villains failed in Spider-Man 3 because they all had a major arc, Nolan's Batman trilogy used multiple villains in each film too and that worked out more than fine. I think Reeves is capable of getting the most out of each character, no matter how small their parts in the story are.

Did it though?

Master Virgo wrote: ↑

November 15th, 2019, 10:50 am

Nomis wrote: ↑

November 15th, 2019, 10:22 am

There's a difference between having too many characters and not utilizing each character with the story. The multiple villains failed in Spider-Man 3 because they all had a major arc, Nolan's Batman trilogy used multiple villains in each film too and that worked out more than fine. I think Reeves is capable of getting the most out of each character, no matter how small their parts in the story are.

Did it though?

er, yeah? Talia is clumsy, but that has more to do with clumsiness and less to do with balancing villains.


-Vader

It did, Vader is right about Talia in TDKR.

The balancing was kind of the problem. Bane and Talia each lack the crucial ingredient that the other one has been given, and as the result neither manages to become a fully fledged villainous presence that the previous two films had.

Bane is the one who gets to show off with all the great moments and speeches, but it's Talia who's supposed to be the special one with the main agency.

All for the sake of a twist that doesn't serve any particular purpose to the story other than to prolong the third act a little bit further.

It's very clearly a one villain story that has been redesigned to have two instead, and both are consequently lesser villains than that single one who could have been.

Master Virgo wrote: ↑

November 15th, 2019, 11:36 am

The balancing was kind of the problem. Bane and Talia each lack the crucial ingredient that the other one has been given, and as the result neither manages to become a fully fledged villainous presence that the previous two films had.

Bane is the one who gets to show off with all the great moments and speeches, but it's Talia who's supposed to be the special one with the main agency.

All for the sake of a twist that doesn't serve any particular purpose to the story other than to prolong the third act a little bit further.

It's very clearly a one villain story that has been redesigned to have two instead, and both are consequently lesser villains than that single one who could have been.

The twist does not just prolong the third act, it recontextualises every interaction that Bruce and Miranda previously had. She even walks into the stock exchange right before Bane enters it and most people didn't even notice.

You're saying she had all of the agency but Bane specifically defied her last request to let Batman live because he realised that if he did not kill him, Batman might try to ruin everything. I think it is more interesting to have multiple villains that are on equal footing because they also function as a twisted reflection of the Bruce/Rachel relationship.

It also serves as a great reminder of who Bruce Wayne was when he tried to murder Joe Chill in Batman Begins. When Batman is facing Talia, he's essentially confronting a different version of himself, except that now he's in Joe Chill's shoes, since he is responsible for the death of Talia's father.

What I'm saying is that I don't even agree that the Talia reveal is clumsy because it builds on the central themes of the trilogy.

“When they inevitably came to us and said, ‘How about a No. 4?’ I said, ‘No. We have to stick to Chris’ dream, which was always to, hopefully, do a trilogy. Let’s not stretch too far and become overindulgent and go for a fourth,’” Bale said. “That’s why we, well Chris, stepped away. After that I was informed my services were no longer required [laughs].”

Lolz.