Demoph wrote: ↑

April 2nd, 2025, 7:14 am

DHOPW42 wrote: ↑

April 2nd, 2025, 5:55 am

What I'm 100% sure is that they won't include the part where Odysseus hangs 12 of his female servants out of revenge...

What I'm sure of is that it won't play as a heroic moment, but it would be problematic to skip it. Women who slept with the enemy have been violently punished all throughout history and not just in myths.
Again the violence and ego of men is a key theme of the story, and it should be included even when unbearable.
It's also what justifies the behaviour of the women characters. Calypso's use of manipulation or Circe's use of magic would make them villain at first, but it's important to include that they are survivor in a world ruled by men to understand their actions.

Given how Denis retained Paul becoming a more immoral Messiah in Dune Part Two, I could believe the idea of Nolan retaining this and using it to show how Odysseus lost his morals. He's willing to often have a pretty flawed protagonist in his films. So they might retain this, I personally think they'll either take or leave it rather than try to find a middle ground.

What I wonder is how they'll tie Penelope and Telemachus's stories together as a way to make them have an impact on Odysseus's story. That might be an odd experience for people, you'd have to be spot on with how you not only intercut them but how they relate to each other.

I don't know if I'm the first person to make this observation but in my reading of the Odyssey (translated by Robert Fitzgerald). I notice that the book starts out in third person when telling the story between Athena, Telemachus, Nestor, Menelaos, etc.

But when we get to Odysseus and his meeting with Alkinoes, the story of the 10 year journey from Troy to Alkinoes' palace was actually told to him (and us) in first person by Odysseus himself.

Now, we all know Nolan likes his first person third person thing in his movies (Memento, Oppenheimer), is it possible that he'll implement this again in for the Odyssey?

I'm wondering how long the return section of the story is going to be, if it'll be heavily truncated or still kept as a lengthy denouement. I can easily see them letting this ending go on for 30 mins at the least, but I'm also sure it's going to be simplified to fit a narrative climax/epilogue. It managed to fit a 2 hour movie (The Return), so obviously it can't go that far.

I haven't read The Odyssey. So I don't want to sound dumb but the tagline of the movie seems to be "Defy The Gods". From what I have read online that is the opposite of the whole point of the story. Please educate me on this matter.

Okay so:

Without giving too much away. The reason why Odysseus got into trouble because he acted against a certain God (not on purpose). The book is sort of non-chronological at points so it starts with other Gods planning to help Odysseus and trying to convince that one God to let him go and not cause him any more pain.

So defying Gods is definitely not a good idea - or something to be encouraged in the context of the story and the world they lived in.

If you really want to use the word "defy" he was defying one God, monsters and humans too. But other more important Gods helped him so much and protected him. All throughout the story he of all people and other people too were praying to the Gods and making sacrifices in their name.

So make your own conclusion. Does "Defy the Gods" make sense with what I've just told you?

I could go in detail but I don't want to spoil it for you or for others. And I suggest you read it because it's a really good and engaging story.

Mick3ymarch wrote: ↑

June 29th, 2025, 3:36 am

I haven't read The Odyssey. So I don't want to sound dumb but the tagline of the movie seems to be "Defy The Gods". From what I have read online that is the opposite of the whole point of the story. Please educate me on this matter.

It is an almost 3000 year old epic poem based deeply in the mythological traditions of a complex society. It's also a poem that was most probably composed orally and written down many decades or even centuries after its composition. I'd argue that finding one "point" to a story such as this might be the same as trying to find what the single point of the Old Testament is. There isn't one - there are many points and aspects of it that academics have been debating since the time of Aristotle.

Although many gods help Odysseus in getting home, the basic backdrop of the story is that the Greek army has ravaged, destroyed and raped the city of Troy and its temples - making the gods very angry. In the myths, the gods decided to kill many of these Greek warriors on their way home, or after getting home, in revenge. Odysseus enjoys the protection of Athena (for reasons), so he cannot be killed, but Poseiden is allowed by Zeus to makes his journey home as long and torturous as possible.

I'm sure that "defying gods" is a theme that is compatible with this premise.

The whole point of greek philosophy was to respect the limits. The gods of their stories where the incarnation of this. In mathematic, for all their discovery, they didn't use zero and infinity. Emptiness as well as the unlimited are contrary to the Greek philosophy, as analyzed by Nietzsche and Camus.
So the Odyssey, like most greek stories, is about a man crossing the limit (mocking the son of a god) and being punished until the gods would forgive him.
I don't think the tagline is a good representation of the story but I don't imagine Nolan misunderstanding the material that much, especially after dealing with these ideas very well already in Oppenheimer or TDK.
And the tagline reassures me concerning the importance of the gods in the story. So all considered, I was more reassured than concerned by it.

Don't know why everyone is assuming that's the moral of the story. I read it more like fuck around find out kind of thing. Defy the gods... at your own peril.

I'm betting that the Penelope sections will function similarly to the hearings in Oppenheimer, interspersed through the film and then key to the final resolution. That being said, I can imagine this part being reduced for the sake of not dragging down the pacing of the Telemachus and Odysseus viewpoints. Yet it's still vital to get across the torment Penelope is going through and the suitors being assholes and schemers, so it'll still be focused on plenty. Is the ultimate payoff of Telemachus going on his own quest in the source or do you think Nolan will add something to tie it into Odysseus and Penelope?

Waitedalongtime wrote: ↑

June 12th, 2025, 9:27 am

I'm wondering how long the return section of the story is going to be, if it'll be heavily truncated or still kept as a lengthy denouement. I can easily see them letting this ending go on for 30 mins at the least, but I'm also sure it's going to be simplified to fit a narrative climax/epilogue. It managed to fit a 2 hour movie (The Return), so obviously it can't go that far.

I think, assuming the film is roughly 3hrs (which I feel is a fairly safe assumption), it'll breakdown into two 90 minute films-Odysseus' journey being one and then everything regarding Penelope/Suitors/Telemachus etc. will be the second. Structurally, the story is already out of order, so I think it will probably start similar to Oppenheimer with Odysseus washing up on Scheria as one of the plotlines and then Telemachus leaving Ithaca as the other. Then, Odysseus' journey will be told through him telling the story himself to the Phaeacians, and the final act will start with their plotlines converging when they both return to Ithaca, and then the rest of the film will be Odysseus back at Ithaca. SOMETHING like that is what I'm anticipating.