It already did. Technically It needs to be 75% with 80 reviews. I am guessing RT think Tenet will drop more so it is going to wait. Once certified it can’t drop below 70%MuffinMcFluffin wrote: ↑September 10th, 2020, 7:36 pmBecause Tenet is at 74.76%, rounded up. It needs to meet or pass real 75% to be certified fresh.
Tenet Reviews/Reactions [Possible SPOILERS]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've seen a movie fluctuate between certified and uncertified once its rating has changed. The certification can be lost, is what I mean.Jesus of Suburbia wrote: ↑September 12th, 2020, 3:50 pmIt already did. Technically It needs to be 75% with 80 reviews. I am guessing RT think Tenet will drop more so it is going to wait. Once certified it can’t drop below 70%MuffinMcFluffin wrote: ↑September 10th, 2020, 7:36 pmBecause Tenet is at 74.76%, rounded up. It needs to meet or pass real 75% to be certified fresh.
I don't necessarily think RT is using discretion in holding its certification hostage. That would be a bit ridiculous. Most frequenters who visit that site probably don't even think twice about the icon unless it's rotten.
They had to take it away for the Joker. They didn’t give to Mulan for a long time. I think they have updated their new policy. They seem to slower than the used tooMuffinMcFluffin wrote: ↑September 12th, 2020, 6:40 pmCorrect me if I'm wrong, but I've seen a movie fluctuate between certified and uncertified once its rating has changed. The certification can be lost, is what I mean.Jesus of Suburbia wrote: ↑September 12th, 2020, 3:50 pmIt already did. Technically It needs to be 75% with 80 reviews. I am guessing RT think Tenet will drop more so it is going to wait. Once certified it can’t drop below 70%MuffinMcFluffin wrote: ↑September 10th, 2020, 7:36 pm
Because Tenet is at 74.76%, rounded up. It needs to meet or pass real 75% to be certified fresh.
I don't necessarily think RT is using discretion in holding its certification hostage. That would be a bit ridiculous. Most frequenters who visit that site probably don't even think twice about the icon unless it's rotten.
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Behold, Interstellar, certified fresh at a score of 72%: https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/interstellar_2014MuffinMcFluffin wrote: ↑September 12th, 2020, 6:40 pmCorrect me if I'm wrong, but I've seen a movie fluctuate between certified and uncertified once its rating has changed. The certification can be lost, is what I mean.Jesus of Suburbia wrote: ↑September 12th, 2020, 3:50 pmIt already did. Technically It needs to be 75% with 80 reviews. I am guessing RT think Tenet will drop more so it is going to wait. Once certified it can’t drop below 70%MuffinMcFluffin wrote: ↑September 10th, 2020, 7:36 pm
Because Tenet is at 74.76%, rounded up. It needs to meet or pass real 75% to be certified fresh.
I don't necessarily think RT is using discretion in holding its certification hostage. That would be a bit ridiculous.
WB clearly wasn't happy with the performative (and ultimately unwarranted) backlash again Joker. Unfortunately, the whole "Certified Fresh" fiasco ended up being one of the catalysts for that. Since then, Rotten Tomatoes has developed a more nuanced view towards score volatility. The more divisive a film in terms of spread, the longer they'll wait before bestowing a certified fresh label. The goal is to ideally avoid having to revoke it (if the average were to drop below a 70%).
Fortunately none of this really matters! What's done is done, and Tenet has been a moderate critical success. Though there is some indication (CinemaScore, audience reviews, etc.) that Nolan has begun to lose a little bit of that broader audience appeal - regardless of the ongoing pandemic.
I really enjoyed Tenet, but this divisiveness (however so mild) has me greatly anticipating whatever he chooses to do next. Seems he may be at a bit of a creative cross-roads, having pushed what he achieved in his early career about as far as it can go (and perhaps a bit too far in some respects). I sense we may be in for some reinvention, which is exciting for me as a long-time admirer.
My guess on this (which I mentioned earlier) is that RT used to have a >70% criterion for certified fresh movies, and anything released before that change is grandfathered in to keep its certification within the 70-75% range.AgentOfChaos wrote: ↑September 13th, 2020, 12:41 amBehold, Interstellar, certified fresh at a score of 72%: https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/interstellar_2014
I mean, if we go by Tarintino's calculations Great Directors lose it after 10 movies. Is it because they try to "reinvention" and it doesn't work? Who knows...I don't know what a reinvented Nolan looks like, this is the thing with Directors who become genres in and of themselves. Have there been great Director reinventions? I can't really think of many...if at all.AgentOfChaos wrote: ↑September 13th, 2020, 12:41 amBehold, Interstellar, certified fresh at a score of 72%: https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/interstellar_2014MuffinMcFluffin wrote: ↑September 12th, 2020, 6:40 pmCorrect me if I'm wrong, but I've seen a movie fluctuate between certified and uncertified once its rating has changed. The certification can be lost, is what I mean.Jesus of Suburbia wrote: ↑September 12th, 2020, 3:50 pm
It already did. Technically It needs to be 75% with 80 reviews. I am guessing RT think Tenet will drop more so it is going to wait. Once certified it can’t drop below 70%
I don't necessarily think RT is using discretion in holding its certification hostage. That would be a bit ridiculous.
WB clearly wasn't happy with the performative (and ultimately unwarranted) backlash again Joker. Unfortunately, the whole "Certified Fresh" fiasco ended up being one of the catalysts for that. Since then, Rotten Tomatoes has developed a more nuanced view towards score volatility. The more divisive a film in terms of spread, the longer they'll wait before bestowing a certified fresh label. The goal is to ideally avoid having to revoke it (if the average were to drop below a 70%).
Fortunately none of this really matters! What's done is done, and Tenet has been a moderate critical success. Though there is some indication (CinemaScore, audience reviews, etc.) that Nolan has begun to lose a little bit of that broader audience appeal - regardless of the ongoing pandemic.
I really enjoyed Tenet, but this divisiveness (however so mild) has me greatly anticipating whatever he chooses to do next. Seems he may be at a bit of a creative cross-roads, having pushed what he achieved in his early career about as far as it can go (and perhaps a bit too far in some respects). I sense we may be in for some reinvention, which is exciting for me as a long-time admirer.
I can't help but think of Michael Mann and Terrence Malick, both directors who have a string of commercial failures and critically unsupported movies: With Mann we can say Miami Vice, Public Enemies, and Blackhat; and Malick had To the Wonder, Knight of Cups, and Song to Song. Mann seems to be done, his Ferrari movie with Huge Jackman has been in limbo for awhile, and Blackhat was such a financial disaster, as well as critical that no studio is gonna give him a sizable budget; but Malick critically bounced back with A hidden life, but he didn't change his style, critics seem to like the material better.
Now, if Tenet flops...which it looks like it might, that would cause a huge problem...because neither Mann or Malick's movies have lost as much money as Tenet. The gross so far is 150$, if we double budget for advertising: the movie needs to make 400 million to break even (some has said more, I don't know if I buy that.) but lets use that. So far, it has to make 250 million, which is alot of money for the studio to lose...
Someone a while ago said that Tenet was going to be Nolan's Heaven's Gate...It might actually be it. I think if the movie flops Nolan might be forced to reinvent...or be forced into a place of compromise.
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According to their own criterion, that's not the case. Unless they've changed the rules without announcing it (while still listing the old rules on their website), the stated requirement for certified fresh is and always has been >75% after 80 reviews for wide release films, with that score not dropping below 70% thereafter.MuffinMcFluffin wrote: ↑September 13th, 2020, 1:30 amMy guess on this (which I mentioned earlier) is that RT used to have a >70% criterion for certified fresh movies, and anything released before that change is grandfathered in to keep its certification within the 70-75% range.AgentOfChaos wrote: ↑September 13th, 2020, 12:41 amBehold, Interstellar, certified fresh at a score of 72%: https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/interstellar_2014
I bet he gets a pass on this one due to the pandemic... though I'm sure the audience reception still stings a bit. Good call re: the futility of reinvention (in many cases), but that doesn't mean Nolan can't stretch his tried and true style towards new territory. Kubrick often did this. Not to mention Dunkirk was a bit of a departure in and of itself.A Borges man wrote: ↑September 13th, 2020, 1:47 amI mean, if we go by Tarintino's calculations Great Directors lose it after 10 movies. Is it because they try to "reinvention" and it doesn't work? Who knows...I don't know what a reinvented Nolan looks like, this is the thing with Directors who become genres in and of themselves. Have there been great Director reinventions? I can't really think of many...if at all.AgentOfChaos wrote: ↑September 13th, 2020, 12:41 amBehold, Interstellar, certified fresh at a score of 72%: https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/interstellar_2014MuffinMcFluffin wrote: ↑September 12th, 2020, 6:40 pm
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've seen a movie fluctuate between certified and uncertified once its rating has changed. The certification can be lost, is what I mean.
I don't necessarily think RT is using discretion in holding its certification hostage. That would be a bit ridiculous.
WB clearly wasn't happy with the performative (and ultimately unwarranted) backlash again Joker. Unfortunately, the whole "Certified Fresh" fiasco ended up being one of the catalysts for that. Since then, Rotten Tomatoes has developed a more nuanced view towards score volatility. The more divisive a film in terms of spread, the longer they'll wait before bestowing a certified fresh label. The goal is to ideally avoid having to revoke it (if the average were to drop below a 70%).
Fortunately none of this really matters! What's done is done, and Tenet has been a moderate critical success. Though there is some indication (CinemaScore, audience reviews, etc.) that Nolan has begun to lose a little bit of that broader audience appeal - regardless of the ongoing pandemic.
I really enjoyed Tenet, but this divisiveness (however so mild) has me greatly anticipating whatever he chooses to do next. Seems he may be at a bit of a creative cross-roads, having pushed what he achieved in his early career about as far as it can go (and perhaps a bit too far in some respects). I sense we may be in for some reinvention, which is exciting for me as a long-time admirer.
I can't help but think of Michael Mann and Terrence Malick, both directors who have a string of commercial failures and critically unsupported movies: With Mann we can say Miami Vice, Public Enemies, and Blackhat; and Malick had To the Wonder, Knight of Cups, and Song to Song. Mann seems to be done, his Ferrari movie with Huge Jackman has been in limbo for awhile, and Blackhat was such a financial disaster, as well as critical that no studio is gonna give him a sizable budget; but Malick critically bounced back with A hidden life, but he didn't change his style, critics seem to like the material better.
Now, if Tenet flops...which it looks like it might, that would cause a huge problem...because neither Mann or Malick's movies have lost as much money as Tenet. The gross so far is 150$, if we double budget for advertising: the movie needs to make 400 million to break even (some has said more, I don't know if I buy that.) but lets use that. So far, it has to make 250 million, which is alot of money for the studio to lose...
Someone a while ago said that Tenet was going to be Nolan's Heaven's Gate...It might actually be it. I think if the movie flops Nolan might be forced to reinvent...or be forced into a place of compromise.
Nolan's future remains bright, I'd say. Tarantino also mentioned that directors have about three good decades in them. Nolan's still just cusping his third.
AgentOfChaos wrote: ↑September 13th, 2020, 1:51 amAccording to their own criterion, that's not the case. Unless they've changed the rules without announcing it (while still listing the old rules on their website), the stated requirement for certified fresh is and always has been >75% after 80 reviews for wide release films, with that score not dropping below 70% thereafter.MuffinMcFluffin wrote: ↑September 13th, 2020, 1:30 amMy guess on this (which I mentioned earlier) is that RT used to have a >70% criterion for certified fresh movies, and anything released before that change is grandfathered in to keep its certification within the 70-75% range.AgentOfChaos wrote: ↑September 13th, 2020, 12:41 amBehold, Interstellar, certified fresh at a score of 72%: https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/interstellar_2014
I bet he gets a pass on this one due to the pandemic... though I'm sure the audience reception still stings a bit. Good call re: the futility of reinvention (in many cases), but that doesn't mean Nolan can't stretch his tried and true style towards new territory. Kubrick often did this. Not to mention Dunkirk was a bit of a departure in and of itself.A Borges man wrote: ↑September 13th, 2020, 1:47 amI mean, if we go by Tarintino's calculations Great Directors lose it after 10 movies. Is it because they try to "reinvention" and it doesn't work? Who knows...I don't know what a reinvented Nolan looks like, this is the thing with Directors who become genres in and of themselves. Have there been great Director reinventions? I can't really think of many...if at all.AgentOfChaos wrote: ↑September 13th, 2020, 12:41 am
Behold, Interstellar, certified fresh at a score of 72%: https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/interstellar_2014
WB clearly wasn't happy with the performative (and ultimately unwarranted) backlash again Joker. Unfortunately, the whole "Certified Fresh" fiasco ended up being one of the catalysts for that. Since then, Rotten Tomatoes has developed a more nuanced view towards score volatility. The more divisive a film in terms of spread, the longer they'll wait before bestowing a certified fresh label. The goal is to ideally avoid having to revoke it (if the average were to drop below a 70%).
Fortunately none of this really matters! What's done is done, and Tenet has been a moderate critical success. Though there is some indication (CinemaScore, audience reviews, etc.) that Nolan has begun to lose a little bit of that broader audience appeal - regardless of the ongoing pandemic.
I really enjoyed Tenet, but this divisiveness (however so mild) has me greatly anticipating whatever he chooses to do next. Seems he may be at a bit of a creative cross-roads, having pushed what he achieved in his early career about as far as it can go (and perhaps a bit too far in some respects). I sense we may be in for some reinvention, which is exciting for me as a long-time admirer.
I can't help but think of Michael Mann and Terrence Malick, both directors who have a string of commercial failures and critically unsupported movies: With Mann we can say Miami Vice, Public Enemies, and Blackhat; and Malick had To the Wonder, Knight of Cups, and Song to Song. Mann seems to be done, his Ferrari movie with Huge Jackman has been in limbo for awhile, and Blackhat was such a financial disaster, as well as critical that no studio is gonna give him a sizable budget; but Malick critically bounced back with A hidden life, but he didn't change his style, critics seem to like the material better.
Now, if Tenet flops...which it looks like it might, that would cause a huge problem...because neither Mann or Malick's movies have lost as much money as Tenet. The gross so far is 150$, if we double budget for advertising: the movie needs to make 400 million to break even (some has said more, I don't know if I buy that.) but lets use that. So far, it has to make 250 million, which is alot of money for the studio to lose...
Someone a while ago said that Tenet was going to be Nolan's Heaven's Gate...It might actually be it. I think if the movie flops Nolan might be forced to reinvent...or be forced into a place of compromise.
Nolan's future remains bright, I'd say. Tarantino also mentioned that directors have about three good decades in them. Nolan's still just cusping his third.
I think Nolan has more variety in his films then most people would admit. Good point with Dunkirk, and maybe that was what critics thought was his pivot. I can't help but think Critics thought Nolan was going to make Dunkirk's moving forward, they think he has regressed. But, I'd argue chasing critical approval/prestige over creative impulse is the wrong way to go about it.
But I look at Katryn Bigelow: Critics went Nuts for The hurt locker and Zero Dark Thirty, but when she felt like she hit the perfect forumal for success, and then Detroit becomes devisive. And it didn't even make back it 35 million budget. I'm actually very happy the Nolan didn't just keep making Dunkirks...I find that alot of "Inspired/based on true story" shit is basically ready made, it is more difficult to make something from the ground up.
My long winded point being: I don't want Nolan to interpret/adapt other people's books/comics, or make based on true story something.
I'm worried that he is gonna to be dissappointed in the reception and then decideds to try to prove his critics wrong and make a comedy/musical/romance and fall on his face. Making art is not made my commity or criticism...it's made by following instincts and making decisions.
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I think some of you need to relax. Money wise, yes, Tenet’s future seems uncertain for now but who knows what will happen along the way. Let it breathe. These aren’t normal times at all. And if it fails, WB and Nolan most likely had a discussion on the matter just like we do here. Seriously, those people probably already considered such a scenario because the pandemic is having a noticeable mark.
Reception wise, the film has been generally positive. It’s near the prestige reception so I don’t see the big deal. Nolan’s appeal hasn’t dropped that much, it’s just that depending on the genre people might feel more attracted to a project. Dunkirk wasn’t going to make a lot of money in the first place because the war genre is not that appealing for a wide audience, yet it did make quite the money for such a film. Now, Tenet does have a broader genre but the ongoing situation has had an effect on the film so in different times we can’t really say how it would’ve performed even with the group of divisive reviews.
I think we just gotta be patient and wait. And if things don’t go that well in the end then I don’t believe there will be much a problem between Nolan and WB. The situation was out of their hands too.
Reception wise, the film has been generally positive. It’s near the prestige reception so I don’t see the big deal. Nolan’s appeal hasn’t dropped that much, it’s just that depending on the genre people might feel more attracted to a project. Dunkirk wasn’t going to make a lot of money in the first place because the war genre is not that appealing for a wide audience, yet it did make quite the money for such a film. Now, Tenet does have a broader genre but the ongoing situation has had an effect on the film so in different times we can’t really say how it would’ve performed even with the group of divisive reviews.
I think we just gotta be patient and wait. And if things don’t go that well in the end then I don’t believe there will be much a problem between Nolan and WB. The situation was out of their hands too.
with respect, this isn't true. User ratings for Prestige are glowing (4.1 letterboxd, 8.5 IMDB, 92% on Rotten Tomatoes) compared to Tenet's tepid reactions (3.6 letterboxed, 7.9 IMDB, 77% Rotten Tomatoes). All they share is a Cinemascore.
-Vader
