[SPOILER] Discussion/Speculation Thread

An original action espionage film releasing in IMAX on August 12, 2020
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dragon_phoenix wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 4:05 pm
The well-dressed American in the VIP box has possession of 'plutonium-241' - which is in fact the last piece of the algorithm!

John David Washington was posing as a mercenary working for some private Russian/Ukranian outfit to kidnap the well-dressed American. But the truth is, John David is a CIA agent who is trying to prevent those private russians from obtaining the plutonium. So JDW proceeds with the mission and saved the VIP and he gets tortured by the private Russians because he did not hand over the VIP.

It is unclear whether the private Russians that tortured JDW are Sator's man, BUT Sator's man was involved because he wanted the last piece of the algorithm. The CIA team that JDW was working with? They got captured by Sator's people and got tortured. But they did not hand over the algorithm.

There's another sub-story plot that is not elaborated in the movie at all. The Ukranian SWAT team while fighting the terrorist, actually wants to kill all the regular folks in the opera house - presumably to exaggerate the impact of the terrorist attack to increase the political capital of the government. This is obviously inspired by the real life terrorist attack: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_th ... age_crisis

John David risked his life trying to prevent the real Ukranian SWAT from killing the people in the cheap seats. He almost failed because one of the real SWAT discovered what he was trying to do...but Neil saved him with a inverted bullet.

Any other questions?
This is like five different plot threads all in one. Feels like
1. there should have been an intro like in Rises with cia guy 2. maybe drop the bomb subplot 3. the 'it was all a test' thing is like Inception but not as savvy

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DarkChocolateOreo wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 5:13 pm
dragon_phoenix wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 4:05 pm
The well-dressed American in the VIP box has possession of 'plutonium-241' - which is in fact the last piece of the algorithm!

John David Washington was posing as a mercenary working for some private Russian/Ukranian outfit to kidnap the well-dressed American. But the truth is, John David is a CIA agent who is trying to prevent those private russians from obtaining the plutonium. So JDW proceeds with the mission and saved the VIP and he gets tortured by the private Russians because he did not hand over the VIP.

It is unclear whether the private Russians that tortured JDW are Sator's man, BUT Sator's man was involved because he wanted the last piece of the algorithm. The CIA team that JDW was working with? They got captured by Sator's people and got tortured. But they did not hand over the algorithm.

There's another sub-story plot that is not elaborated in the movie at all. The Ukranian SWAT team while fighting the terrorist, actually wants to kill all the regular folks in the opera house - presumably to exaggerate the impact of the terrorist attack to increase the political capital of the government. This is obviously inspired by the real life terrorist attack: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_th ... age_crisis

John David risked his life trying to prevent the real Ukranian SWAT from killing the people in the cheap seats. He almost failed because one of the real SWAT discovered what he was trying to do...but Neil saved him with a inverted bullet.

Any other questions?
This is like five different plot threads all in one. Feels like
1. there should have been an intro like in Rises with cia guy 2. maybe drop the bomb subplot 3. the 'it was all a test' thing is like Inception but not as savvy
I don't know if my post really is related when it comes to a response, but I wanted to say:
This movie really built up these big set pieces to be like... nothing. There is an awesome scaling up the tall building where you're hoping/expecting some sort of awesome stealth stuff, and it just ends up being a peaceful conversation. Then they're going to crash a massive plane, only for it to gentle graze the facade of a building lol (I know I'm being sarcastic). Then there are these weird flying boats where they speak inaudibly and then Branagh just lays face down in the water. Then there is a freeway scene where idiot van drivers don't notice they're being sandwiched in as a six-minute escapade has nothing but JDW swing left and right on a ladder and eventually remove an orange case. Then we see these things in reverse. Then there is a raid in Russia where we don't see any bad guys. Then credits.
I'm obviously being very facetious, though I do wonder if it wasn't for the IMAX presentation, the swift edits or the awesome score... whether any of these things would actually hold up among Nolan's other great action set pieces? One thing I always like about his stuff is how much is done in camera, and I think that's what I'm appreciating most while watching (I'm simply tired of green screen and CGI), but it also kind of shows how limited you can be sometimes.

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About THAT theory.
I just watched it third time, and was trying to imagine that Max is Neil, but I just can't. I think since Vader=Anakin people are trying to find forced connections between characters, but since that I can't recall any good usage of this kind of plot twists. The Prestige did it well, but remember, it wasn't our task to find it out, Nolan showed the truth just as he did in TDKR (Miranda=Talia). Of course, Max can be Neil, because there's nothing denying it, and as Tenet is a fiction without any pre/sequels, you have the right to believe or even to be sure that's the truth, but I'm nearly 100% sure that in Nolan's head they're not the same.
A lot of things happen off camera, so now I think I can live with the ending, but some smaller details bother me.
I'm talking about objects that were hit by inverted objects. The BMW's mirror was broken before the Audi unbroke it. I really want to know that car's backstory. Did they assemble the car in the BMW factory with a broken mirror knowing that one day in Tallinn an Audi will come and erase the fracture? :D The twice-exploded building... what was it like in the seventies? That building had to be built in the past, but after the blue team explodes it, it remains collided in the past (as we see in the red team's POV). And the debris of the wall at Barbara's labor. We see that debris fill the hole as the bullet leaves the rock, but where are those debris come from?

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speedy117 wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 12:31 pm
Do you have a link to that interview? I would love to watch it!
Sure thing. She is asked about it in both of these.



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quervo wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 6:11 pm
About THAT theory.
I just watched it third time, and was trying to imagine that Max is Neil, but I just can't. I think since Vader=Anakin people are trying to find forced connections between characters, but since that I can't recall any good usage of this kind of plot twists. The Prestige did it well, but remember, it wasn't our task to find it out, Nolan showed the truth just as he did in TDKR (Miranda=Talia). Of course, Max can be Neil, because there's nothing denying it, and as Tenet is a fiction without any pre/sequels, you have the right to believe or even to be sure that's the truth, but I'm nearly 100% sure that in Nolan's head they're not the same.
I wasn't speculating though, I was wondering why it wasn't canonized in the first place.

That said, it's not that much of a stretch:

  • MAXIMILIEN -- NEIL.
  • Longer blonde hair.
  • English accent.
  • Graduate degree in Physics.
  • Speaks Estonian, as does Sator.
  • "Would you take a child hostage? A woman?"
  • Knows much about Protag and is one step ahead every step of the way.
  • Cares for Kat after injury, like a good boy.
  • Knowledge of personal date from Kat's past of which Max was around.
  • Performs an indebted sacrifice to Protag with his own life.
  • "See you at the beginning." Next (and final) scene shows Protag watching Kat & Max.

I'm probably missing some.

One or two of these wouldn't mean anything, or is as much chalked up to the idea of old Protag recruiting Neil in the past as much as anything else (which he still does). But when you're hitting a dozen in your list, you're no longer grasping.

I remember the second time I saw the movie I didn't really see much either, but then again I just didn't really see much of Neil at all. Everyone is saying how amazing Pattinson is in this movie, and I was thinking I barely even felt his presence. It would be nice if his allusion was through Max though, because his presence could then be more felt.
Last edited by MuffinMcFluffin on September 13th, 2020, 9:03 pm, edited 5 times in total.

KEM
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MuffinMcFluffin wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 8:19 pm
quervo wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 6:11 pm
About THAT theory.
I just watched it third time, and was trying to imagine that Max is Neil, but I just can't. I think since Vader=Anakin people are trying to find forced connections between characters, but since that I can't recall any good usage of this kind of plot twists. The Prestige did it well, but remember, it wasn't our task to find it out, Nolan showed the truth just as he did in TDKR (Miranda=Talia). Of course, Max can be Neil, because there's nothing denying it, and as Tenet is a fiction without any pre/sequels, you have the right to believe or even to be sure that's the truth, but I'm nearly 100% sure that in Nolan's head they're not the same.
I wasn't speculating though, I was wondering why it wasn't canonized in the first place.

That said, it's not that much of a stretch:

  • MAXIMILIEN -- NEIL.
  • Longer blonde hair.
  • English accent.
  • Graduate degree in Physics.
  • "Would you take a child hostage? A woman?"
  • Knows much about Protag and every step of the way.
  • Cares for Kat after injury, like a good boy.
  • Knowledge of personal date from Kat's past of which Max was around.
  • Performs an indebted sacrifice to Protag with his own life.
  • "See you at the beginning." Next scene shows Protag watching Kat & Max.

I'm probably missing some.

One or two of these wouldn't mean anything, or is as much chalked up to the idea of old Protag recruiting Neil in the past as much as anything else (which he still does).

I remember the second time I saw the movie I didn't really see much either, but then again I just didn't really see much of Neil at all. Everyone is saying how amazing Pattinson is in this movie, and I was thinking I barely even felt his presence. It would be nice if his allusion was through Max though, because his presence could then be more felt.
Neil also speaks Estonian, and Sator is obviously from that part of the world, so that is considered to be another hint towards the theory

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quervo wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 6:11 pm
About THAT theory.
I just watched it third time, and was trying to imagine that Max is Neil, but I just can't. I think since Vader=Anakin people are trying to find forced connections between characters, but since that I can't recall any good usage of this kind of plot twists. The Prestige did it well, but remember, it wasn't our task to find it out, Nolan showed the truth just as he did in TDKR (Miranda=Talia). Of course, Max can be Neil, because there's nothing denying it, and as Tenet is a fiction without any pre/sequels, you have the right to believe or even to be sure that's the truth, but I'm nearly 100% sure that in Nolan's head they're not the same.
A lot of things happen off camera, so now I think I can live with the ending, but some smaller details bother me.
I'm talking about objects that were hit by inverted objects. The BMW's mirror was broken before the Audi unbroke it. I really want to know that car's backstory. Did they assemble the car in the BMW factory with a broken mirror knowing that one day in Tallinn an Audi will come and erase the fracture? :D The twice-exploded building... what was it like in the seventies? That building had to be built in the past, but after the blue team explodes it, it remains collided in the past (as we see in the red team's POV). And the debris of the wall at Barbara's labor. We see that debris fill the hole as the bullet leaves the rock, but where are those debris come from?
For the BMW mirror thing
I think what happens is that the mirror was normal and fixed, but leading up to the point of the car chase it will slowly start to crack, kind of like how the Protagonist's knife wound slowly started to appear at the airport. Also, I'm not exactly sure though, they might've explained this a bit by talking about wind or something? I've only seen the film once so correct me if I'm wrong.

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KEM wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 8:42 pm
MuffinMcFluffin wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 8:19 pm
quervo wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 6:11 pm
About THAT theory.
I just watched it third time, and was trying to imagine that Max is Neil, but I just can't. I think since Vader=Anakin people are trying to find forced connections between characters, but since that I can't recall any good usage of this kind of plot twists. The Prestige did it well, but remember, it wasn't our task to find it out, Nolan showed the truth just as he did in TDKR (Miranda=Talia). Of course, Max can be Neil, because there's nothing denying it, and as Tenet is a fiction without any pre/sequels, you have the right to believe or even to be sure that's the truth, but I'm nearly 100% sure that in Nolan's head they're not the same.
I wasn't speculating though, I was wondering why it wasn't canonized in the first place.

That said, it's not that much of a stretch:

  • MAXIMILIEN -- NEIL.
  • Longer blonde hair.
  • English accent.
  • Graduate degree in Physics.
  • "Would you take a child hostage? A woman?"
  • Knows much about Protag and every step of the way.
  • Cares for Kat after injury, like a good boy.
  • Knowledge of personal date from Kat's past of which Max was around.
  • Performs an indebted sacrifice to Protag with his own life.
  • "See you at the beginning." Next scene shows Protag watching Kat & Max.

I'm probably missing some.

One or two of these wouldn't mean anything, or is as much chalked up to the idea of old Protag recruiting Neil in the past as much as anything else (which he still does).

I remember the second time I saw the movie I didn't really see much either, but then again I just didn't really see much of Neil at all. Everyone is saying how amazing Pattinson is in this movie, and I was thinking I barely even felt his presence. It would be nice if his allusion was through Max though, because his presence could then be more felt.
Neil also speaks Estonian, and Sator is obviously from that part of the world, so that is considered to be another hint towards the theory
That was the big one I was missing. Thanks, I knew there was one! If you don't mind, I'm going to invert time and add that one to my list as if I always had it, for anyone who needs convincing haha.

There's just no way that's coincidence.

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MuffinMcFluffin wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 8:58 pm
KEM wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 8:42 pm
MuffinMcFluffin wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 8:19 pm


I wasn't speculating though, I was wondering why it wasn't canonized in the first place.

That said, it's not that much of a stretch:

  • MAXIMILIEN -- NEIL.
  • Longer blonde hair.
  • English accent.
  • Graduate degree in Physics.
  • "Would you take a child hostage? A woman?"
  • Knows much about Protag and every step of the way.
  • Cares for Kat after injury, like a good boy.
  • Knowledge of personal date from Kat's past of which Max was around.
  • Performs an indebted sacrifice to Protag with his own life.
  • "See you at the beginning." Next scene shows Protag watching Kat & Max.

I'm probably missing some.

One or two of these wouldn't mean anything, or is as much chalked up to the idea of old Protag recruiting Neil in the past as much as anything else (which he still does).

I remember the second time I saw the movie I didn't really see much either, but then again I just didn't really see much of Neil at all. Everyone is saying how amazing Pattinson is in this movie, and I was thinking I barely even felt his presence. It would be nice if his allusion was through Max though, because his presence could then be more felt.
Neil also speaks Estonian, and Sator is obviously from that part of the world, so that is considered to be another hint towards the theory
That was the big one I was missing. Thanks, I knew there was one!

There's just no way that's coincidence.
I really don't know how to feel about this theory and it's killing me. Usually there is some closure in Nolan films because there is sufficient evidence, and while there is evidence in Tenet, it just seems like a bit of a reach.

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