I thought the algorithm was already active and would destroy the world the moment Sator dies, and so when he did and nothing happened, I thought I missed the moment they defused it. But later I realised it apparently was never active in the first place, since they stopped Sator's guy from doing so (the guy was trying to reach something idk). Did I get that right?
I'm with you.
I thought they had to remove the algorithm from the tunnel bc it was hooked up to the detonation device, and they got it out before the 10 second trigger when Sator killed himself.
Now I'm completely lost on what the battle was even over/what Ives and The Protagonist were doing.
So the algorithm is in the tunnel, but they needed it to fall into the dead-drop tunnel, which would then be covered by the wreckage of the detonation. This would have made it impossible for anyone to retrieve the artifact, while simultaneously broadcasting the location to the future. The exchange between the past and the future is almost instant (ex: the gold bars).
Sator is planning to bury the algorithm in Stalsk-12 and should he have successfully dropped the algorithm in to dead-drop and closed it, it would have been game over. His death was kind of a fail-safe in the same way that P, Ives, and Neil would have had to die to hide the location of the pieces of the Algorithm.
Drop Algorithm into dead-drop >>> Detonate Cave >>> Transmit location to the future === Future gets the algorithm back >>> World inverses automatically.
Sator's death only hides the algorithm, it does not unleash it. I hope this makes sense, I was piecing this together as I was writing it lol
So the algorithm is in the tunnel, but they needed it to fall into the dead-drop tunnel, which would then be covered by the wreckage of the detonation. This would have made it impossible for anyone to retrieve the artifact, while simultaneously broadcasting the location to the future. The exchange between the past and the future is almost instant (ex: the gold bars).
Sator is planning to bury the algorithm in Stalsk-12 and should he have successfully dropped the algorithm in to dead-drop and closed it, it would have been game over. His death was kind of a fail-safe in the same way that P, Ives, and Neil would have had to die to hide the location of the pieces of the Algorithm.
Drop Algorithm into dead-drop >>> Detonate Cave >>> Transmit location to the future === Future gets the algorithm back >>> World inverses automatically.
Sator's death only hides the algorithm, it does not unleash it. I hope this makes sense, I was piecing this together as I was writing it lol
I follow you up to a point, but this doesn't make sense either. Particularly that the exchange is "instant."
The whole point is that it isn't "time travel." To send something to the past, the future has to invert someone and send them back to the past in an equal number of years. To send something to the future... you just have to live through time going normally like you or I. Priya asks if the future has a way to talk to Sator instantly, but the movie never answers this directly.
According to your description, Sator's entire plan is to basically...bury the 9 pieces of the algorithm so the people in future can ...dig it up... (since they won't know instantly, right?) knowing where it'll be ahead of time. Then make their "time bomb" and send it back to us, as Poesy says earlier. But if Tenet fails to stop Sator in the third of the movie... they could just dig it up before the future death cult want to. This also makes sentences like "activate the algorithm" even more confusing.
Another confound is that I wonder if because The Protagonist lived through these events as we see them occur, his future self then has to set all these things in motion, making Tenet a movie all about the future Protagonist closing all the loops.
i have literally read the dialogue from the screenplay, and I'm still struggling to see how these elements add up
So the algorithm is in the tunnel, but they needed it to fall into the dead-drop tunnel, which would then be covered by the wreckage of the detonation. This would have made it impossible for anyone to retrieve the artifact, while simultaneously broadcasting the location to the future. The exchange between the past and the future is almost instant (ex: the gold bars).
Sator is planning to bury the algorithm in Stalsk-12 and should he have successfully dropped the algorithm in to dead-drop and closed it, it would have been game over. His death was kind of a fail-safe in the same way that P, Ives, and Neil would have had to die to hide the location of the pieces of the Algorithm.
Drop Algorithm into dead-drop >>> Detonate Cave >>> Transmit location to the future === Future gets the algorithm back >>> World inverses automatically.
Sator's death only hides the algorithm, it does not unleash it. I hope this makes sense, I was piecing this together as I was writing it lol
I follow you up to a point, but this doesn't make sense either. Particularly that the exchange is "instant."
The whole point is that it isn't "time travel." To send something to the past, the future has to invert someone and send them back to the past in an equal number of years. To send something to the future... you just have to live through time going normally like you or I. Priya asks if the future has a way to talk to Sator instantly, but the movie never answers this directly.
According to your description, Sator's entire plan is to basically...bury the 9 pieces of the algorithm so the people in future can ...dig it up... (since they won't know instantly, right?) knowing where it'll be ahead of time. Then make their "time bomb" and send it back to us, as Poesy says earlier. But if Tenet fails to stop Sator in the third of the movie... they could just dig it up before the future death cult want to. This also makes sentences like "activate the algorithm" even more confusing.
Another confound is that I wonder if because The Protagonist lived through these events as we see them occur, his future self then has to set all these things in motion, making Tenet a movie all about the future Protagonist closing all the loops.
i have literally read the dialogue from the screenplay, and I'm still struggling to see how these elements add up
-Vader
I think the movie operates with the guise that once the artifact is in the drop, it isn't possible to dig back up. I'm understanding that the interaction is actually instantaneous, because cause/effect doesn't necessarily matter here - what happens will happen. For example:
What did you find on the gold?
No franks[??], no mold marks. Nothing. How?
Dead drops. He buries his time capsule, transmits the location, then digs it up to collect the inverted materials they send him.
Seemingly instantaneous. Where does he bury it
I don't think Nolan is exactly using this as a easy-out but in the context of the movie, this makes sense especially with items that don't seem to age (gold, artifact, etc.). The act of locking the artifact into the drop would automatically trigger the events of the future, that's how I'm reading into it.
I believe I read in the script that Sator does have a way to communicate with the future, which I think it's the fitbit albeit it's hazy on how it does that.
So the algorithm is in the tunnel, but they needed it to fall into the dead-drop tunnel, which would then be covered by the wreckage of the detonation. This would have made it impossible for anyone to retrieve the artifact, while simultaneously broadcasting the location to the future. The exchange between the past and the future is almost instant (ex: the gold bars).
Sator is planning to bury the algorithm in Stalsk-12 and should he have successfully dropped the algorithm in to dead-drop and closed it, it would have been game over. His death was kind of a fail-safe in the same way that P, Ives, and Neil would have had to die to hide the location of the pieces of the Algorithm.
Drop Algorithm into dead-drop >>> Detonate Cave >>> Transmit location to the future === Future gets the algorithm back >>> World inverses automatically.
Sator's death only hides the algorithm, it does not unleash it. I hope this makes sense, I was piecing this together as I was writing it lol
I follow you up to a point, but this doesn't make sense either. Particularly that the exchange is "instant."
The whole point is that it isn't "time travel." To send something to the past, the future has to invert someone and send them back to the past in an equal number of years. To send something to the future... you just have to live through time going normally like you or I. Priya asks if the future has a way to talk to Sator instantly, but the movie never answers this directly.
According to your description, Sator's entire plan is to basically...bury the 9 pieces of the algorithm so the people in future can ...dig it up... (since they won't know instantly, right?) knowing where it'll be ahead of time. Then make their "time bomb" and send it back to us, as Poesy says earlier. But if Tenet fails to stop Sator in the third of the movie... they could just dig it up before the future death cult want to. This also makes sentences like "activate the algorithm" even more confusing.
Another confound is that I wonder if because The Protagonist lived through these events as we see them occur, his future self then has to set all these things in motion, making Tenet a movie all about the future Protagonist closing all the loops.
i have literally read the dialogue from the screenplay, and I'm still struggling to see how these elements add up
-Vader
I think the movie operates with the guise that once the artifact is in the drop, it isn't possible to dig back up. I'm understanding that the interaction is actually instantaneous, because cause/effect doesn't necessarily matter here - what happens will happen. For example:
What did you find on the gold?
No franks[??], no mold marks. Nothing. How?
Dead drops. He buries his time capsule, transmits the location, then digs it up to collect the inverted materials they send him.
Seemingly instantaneous. Where does he bury it
I don't think Nolan is exactly using this as a easy-out but in the context of the movie, this makes sense especially with items that don't seem to age (gold, artifact, etc.). The act of locking the artifact into the drop would automatically trigger the events of the future, that's how I'm reading into it.
I believe I read in the script that Sator does have a way to communicate with the future, which I think it's the fitbit albeit it's hazy on how it does that.
KAT: Tell me you’re going to kill him.
PROTAGONIST: I can’t.
KAT: Why not? I think you’ve probably killed a lot of people.
NEIL: Not with a dead man’s switch.
PROTAGONIST: The fitness tracker he wears.
KAT: He’s obsessed about his health.
NEIL: It could be linked to a switch. Probably a simple email burst that reveals the location of the dead drop. Set the fire, if his heart stops.
PROTAGONIST: His death activates the algorithm. He dies, the world ends. No one dares kill him.
communicate immediately with the future and vice versa, essentially *actually* doing time travel instead of real-time, years-long inversion, why do they need the inversion algorithm in the first place? Or am I misunderstanding? lol
communicate immediately with the future and vice versa, essentially *actually* doing time travel instead of real-time, years-long inversion, why do they need the inversion algorithm in the first place? Or am I misunderstanding? lol
If I'm understanding your question (probably not), because the future still needs to undo the damage humans have caused by reversing the flow of time?
PROTAGONIST: What’s more fanatical than trying to destroy the world?
SATOR: I’m not, I’m creating a new one. Somewhere, sometime, a man in a
crystalline tower throws a switch, and Armageddon is both triggered and avoided.
Now time itself switches direction. The same sunshine we bask in, will warm the
faces of our descendants, generations to come.
PROTAGONIST: How could they want to kill us?
SATOR: Because their oceans rose, and their rivers ran dry. Don’t you see, they have
no choice but to turn back. We’re responsible.
Also, is it ok to answer every question with "What's happened, happened" so I feel less dumb? lol
communicate immediately with the future and vice versa, essentially *actually* doing time travel instead of real-time, years-long inversion, why do they need the inversion algorithm in the first place? Or am I misunderstanding? lol
If I'm understanding your question (probably not), because the future still needs to undo the damage humans have caused by reversing the flow of time?
PROTAGONIST: What’s more fanatical than trying to destroy the world?
SATOR: I’m not, I’m creating a new one. Somewhere, sometime, a man in a
crystalline tower throws a switch, and Armageddon is both triggered and avoided.
Now time itself switches direction. The same sunshine we bask in, will warm the
faces of our descendants, generations to come.
PROTAGONIST: How could they want to kill us?
SATOR: Because their oceans rose, and their rivers ran dry. Don’t you see, they have
no choice but to turn back. We’re responsible.
Also, is it ok to answer every question with "What's happened, happened" so I feel less dumb? lol
Meh. I thought that
the people of the future are attempting to inverse the world to see if a paradox would be possible and they'd be able to avoid destruction. And Tenet is trying to stop Sator from letting that experiment happen. The issue is what Sator himself is actually doing. Why can Tenet not dig deep enough under the rubble to just pluck the algorithm? Why does the future people not do a more direct means of communication if the transaction is instantaneous?
I think I got to the bottom of why nobody can agree on how the macguffin works. Some of the dialogue more or less contradicts other dialogue. See here:
KAT: Tell me you’re going to kill him.
PROTAGONIST: I can’t.
KAT: Why not? I think you’ve probably killed a lot of people.
NEIL: Not with a dead man’s switch.
PROTAGONIST: The fitness tracker he wears.
KAT: He’s obsessed about his health.
NEIL: It could be linked to a switch. Probably a simple email burst that reveals the location of the dead drop. Set the fire, if his heart stops.
PROTAGONIST: His death activates the algorithm. He dies, the world ends. No one dares kill him.
This quote itself is fairly contradictory. It clearly states his dead man's switch could either send an ...email... or also "activates the algorithm" which will then cause the world to immediately end. Then there's this:
PROTAGONIST: Do you know what a Hypocenter is?
It’s ground zero for an underground nuclear test.
Sir Michael Crosby told me about a detonation in Stalsk 12 on the 14th.
The dead drop is at the bottom of the Hypocenter. That explosion seals up the algorithm. IVES: Then we better get it out of that hole before the bomb goes off, eh?
Then there's this. So clearly, while the movie says that the algorithm is in a black box, and his dead man's switch "activates the algorithm", the goal is to "seal up" the algorithm with an explosion.
IE, the movie simultaneously says they're trying to "seal up" and "activate" the algorithm at the same time, but these events don't appear to be causally linked...right? Since if "sealing it" brought it into the future, he wouldn't need the dead man switch (as Ruth said previously). But "seals" implies something different than "activates" as in destroys the world, so ultimately, I guess all the confusion boils down to what we think "activate" even means. Is it the email? Is it the bomb itself? Is it the future? Does the future have a way to "talk back" to him?
TL;DR, It's pretty much left completely to our fucking imagination. So...we were all right... and we were all wrong. How fun
