[SPOILER] Discussion/Speculation Thread

An original action espionage film releasing in IMAX on August 12, 2020
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MuffinMcFluffin wrote:
October 5th, 2020, 12:41 pm
I knew there were two different drawings, but my question was regarding why they didn't try seek it out once they were alone in the room of all the other art. I understand now though, you're saying Sator would have his Goya drawing in a vault in the middle of that ROTAS pentagon room and not with everybody else's, so they were still in fact seeking it out at that time. Makes more sense.

Okay, I got two more for you if you're still around (or anyone else). I think I have this first one, but I want to be sure I'm thinking of it correctly:

1)
There are now two Kat's who exist in the ending timeline that we're seeing, let's call them Old Kat (the one who kills Sator) and Young Kat (the one who sees O.K. diving off the yacht). There is only one Max as a youngin, however.

Which version of Kat is picking up Max at the end of the movie?

If I'm thinking of this right, this must be a little deeper into the future than we see during the time of the red/blue room, because that's as far as any version of a Young Kat gets before she goes backwards in time. So Old Kat just hangs out until that moment in time, then she takes over to be the only Kat remaining through the rest of future time?

2)
After they decide to go further back in time to before the Opera/Stalsk-12 events, Protag goes to see Priya as she vomits more exposition to him. This is the first time they ever actually meet in the film's timeline of events that we see, yet the first thing she asks is something like: "Where's Neil?"

Even if she is a trained Tenet recruit, I'm not sure how at this point in the timeline she would know that he is some Old Protag version as he approaches her at that moment. I mean if I think hard enough then maybe I'd understand that a New Protag wouldn't have ever sought her out until after the Opera/Stalsk-12 moment in the timeline so even that version of him must've also met Neil at some point, but at this time Priya doesn't even know that Protag is going to visit her in the first place (I doubt even some Old Protag would have clued her in about that idea for omission's sake).

I'm just wondering why she asks about Neil to a Protag who may or may not have met Neil at that particular point in time. Maybe that's not something worth probing for the bigger picture since that's not an important question, but Priya is blindsided by Protag and has the mindset to ask that on the spot, so she must've already known what version she was speaking to. It was just kind of weird timing is all.
1)
Exactly. The young Kat we see on the boat will just live her life normally up to the red/blue room. That Kat is in the past anyway. Present Kat will just have to hide for two weeks or so and then reunites with her son.
2)
Okay it's been a month since I've last seen the film so your question kinda confused me - a lot. But here's answer:

The Protagonist specifically asked Neil to bring Priya to Oslo. So she was expecting to see Neil not TP. But... this isn't the first time they meet. TP meeting Priya in Oslo happens after the plane crash and they are going forward in time. His objective is to prevent her from telling him about the plutonium which she does when he flies back to Mumbai after the Oslo plane crash. And he would've met Neil at that time since he helped him get to Sanjay Singh.

The first meeting happened almost a week before Oslo. I need to read the script again to confirm this but this is what I think at the moment.

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Tarssauce wrote:
October 5th, 2020, 1:07 pm
MuffinMcFluffin wrote:
October 5th, 2020, 12:41 pm
I knew there were two different drawings, but my question was regarding why they didn't try seek it out once they were alone in the room of all the other art. I understand now though, you're saying Sator would have his Goya drawing in a vault in the middle of that ROTAS pentagon room and not with everybody else's, so they were still in fact seeking it out at that time. Makes more sense.

Okay, I got two more for you if you're still around (or anyone else). I think I have this first one, but I want to be sure I'm thinking of it correctly:

1)
There are now two Kat's who exist in the ending timeline that we're seeing, let's call them Old Kat (the one who kills Sator) and Young Kat (the one who sees O.K. diving off the yacht). There is only one Max as a youngin, however.

Which version of Kat is picking up Max at the end of the movie?

If I'm thinking of this right, this must be a little deeper into the future than we see during the time of the red/blue room, because that's as far as any version of a Young Kat gets before she goes backwards in time. So Old Kat just hangs out until that moment in time, then she takes over to be the only Kat remaining through the rest of future time?

2)
After they decide to go further back in time to before the Opera/Stalsk-12 events, Protag goes to see Priya as she vomits more exposition to him. This is the first time they ever actually meet in the film's timeline of events that we see, yet the first thing she asks is something like: "Where's Neil?"

Even if she is a trained Tenet recruit, I'm not sure how at this point in the timeline she would know that he is some Old Protag version as he approaches her at that moment. I mean if I think hard enough then maybe I'd understand that a New Protag wouldn't have ever sought her out until after the Opera/Stalsk-12 moment in the timeline so even that version of him must've also met Neil at some point, but at this time Priya doesn't even know that Protag is going to visit her in the first place (I doubt even some Old Protag would have clued her in about that idea for omission's sake).

I'm just wondering why she asks about Neil to a Protag who may or may not have met Neil at that particular point in time. Maybe that's not something worth probing for the bigger picture since that's not an important question, but Priya is blindsided by Protag and has the mindset to ask that on the spot, so she must've already known what version she was speaking to. It was just kind of weird timing is all.
1)
Exactly. The young Kat we see on the boat will just live her life normally up to the red/blue room. That Kat is in the past anyway. Present Kat will just have to hide for two weeks or so and then reunites with her son.
2)
Okay it's been a month since I've last seen the film so your question kinda confused me - a lot. But here's answer:

The Protagonist specifically asked Neil to bring Priya to Oslo. So she was expecting to see Neil not TP. But... this isn't the first time they meet. TP meeting Priya in Oslo happens after the plane crash and they are going forward in time. His objective is to prevent her from telling him about the plutonium which she does when he flies back to Mumbai after the Oslo plane crash. And he would've met Neil at that time since he helped him get to Sanjay Singh.

The first meeting happened almost a week before Oslo. I need to read the script again to confirm this but this is what I think at the moment.
Thanks for confirming on #1.

2)
Thanks, I think you have this right. I thought when they spoke they were before he ever "met her" during the entire movie's runtime. Every time he says "in two days you're going to tell me about [blah blah blah]," I thought that was when he and Neil go up to her residence. I guess they're talking about the time he meets her again down the line. Makes sense now, I was super confused there.

I'm also pretty lost on some aspects of the opening scene. Let's see what I have correct/incorrect so far because this is a messy opening (not as a knock to Nolan, I mean to try and make sense of upon just a few viewings):

Terrorists siege the Opera House in what looks like a hostage situation for the orchestra and audience, who are all later knocked out by noxious gas poured into the hall by S.W.A.T. Some terrorists had anticipated the gas since they put on masks (not all of them), so S.W.A.T. is working for those terrorists or the other way around (basically, it was organized within both parties). The terrorist takeover is only to appear as such so they can apprehend the supposed Plutonium-241 and/or the "Well Dressed Man" who is selling it, because national security reasons.

The Ukrainian drivers with the Americans in the back (including Protag) are posted outside of the Opera House waiting for S.W.A.T. to arrive so they can seamlessly merge with them upon the "raid" because they are also trying to gather the same two things, and they appear to be Sator's men. However, Protag and his crew have different plans as they are really working for the CIA (confirmed by their "twilight world" ID challenge to one another) and trying to get the same two things as well so it doesn't fall into the wrong hands.

One part I don't understand is the gunfire battle going on between S.W.A.T. and the terrorists if they are working together. If they're not working together, how did the terrorists know to bring gas masks or how did S.W.A.T. conveniently arrive on time just as the siege began?

There are more things that I wanted to say, but that bottommost question there is slipping past me at the moment.

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MuffinMcFluffin wrote:
October 5th, 2020, 1:32 pm
Tarssauce wrote:
October 5th, 2020, 1:07 pm
MuffinMcFluffin wrote:
October 5th, 2020, 12:41 pm
I knew there were two different drawings, but my question was regarding why they didn't try seek it out once they were alone in the room of all the other art. I understand now though, you're saying Sator would have his Goya drawing in a vault in the middle of that ROTAS pentagon room and not with everybody else's, so they were still in fact seeking it out at that time. Makes more sense.

Okay, I got two more for you if you're still around (or anyone else). I think I have this first one, but I want to be sure I'm thinking of it correctly:

1)
There are now two Kat's who exist in the ending timeline that we're seeing, let's call them Old Kat (the one who kills Sator) and Young Kat (the one who sees O.K. diving off the yacht). There is only one Max as a youngin, however.

Which version of Kat is picking up Max at the end of the movie?

If I'm thinking of this right, this must be a little deeper into the future than we see during the time of the red/blue room, because that's as far as any version of a Young Kat gets before she goes backwards in time. So Old Kat just hangs out until that moment in time, then she takes over to be the only Kat remaining through the rest of future time?

2)
After they decide to go further back in time to before the Opera/Stalsk-12 events, Protag goes to see Priya as she vomits more exposition to him. This is the first time they ever actually meet in the film's timeline of events that we see, yet the first thing she asks is something like: "Where's Neil?"

Even if she is a trained Tenet recruit, I'm not sure how at this point in the timeline she would know that he is some Old Protag version as he approaches her at that moment. I mean if I think hard enough then maybe I'd understand that a New Protag wouldn't have ever sought her out until after the Opera/Stalsk-12 moment in the timeline so even that version of him must've also met Neil at some point, but at this time Priya doesn't even know that Protag is going to visit her in the first place (I doubt even some Old Protag would have clued her in about that idea for omission's sake).

I'm just wondering why she asks about Neil to a Protag who may or may not have met Neil at that particular point in time. Maybe that's not something worth probing for the bigger picture since that's not an important question, but Priya is blindsided by Protag and has the mindset to ask that on the spot, so she must've already known what version she was speaking to. It was just kind of weird timing is all.
1)
Exactly. The young Kat we see on the boat will just live her life normally up to the red/blue room. That Kat is in the past anyway. Present Kat will just have to hide for two weeks or so and then reunites with her son.
2)
Okay it's been a month since I've last seen the film so your question kinda confused me - a lot. But here's answer:

The Protagonist specifically asked Neil to bring Priya to Oslo. So she was expecting to see Neil not TP. But... this isn't the first time they meet. TP meeting Priya in Oslo happens after the plane crash and they are going forward in time. His objective is to prevent her from telling him about the plutonium which she does when he flies back to Mumbai after the Oslo plane crash. And he would've met Neil at that time since he helped him get to Sanjay Singh.

The first meeting happened almost a week before Oslo. I need to read the script again to confirm this but this is what I think at the moment.
Thanks for confirming on #1.

2)
Thanks, I think you have this right. I thought when they spoke they were before he ever "met her" during the entire movie's runtime. Every time he says "in two days you're going to tell me about [blah blah blah]," I thought that was when he and Neil go up to her residence. I guess they're talking about the time he meets her again down the line. Makes sense now, I was super confused there.

I'm also pretty lost on some aspects of the opening scene. Let's see what I have correct/incorrect so far because this is a messy opening (not as a knock to Nolan, I mean to try and make sense of upon just a few viewings):

Terrorists siege the Opera House in what looks like a hostage situation for the orchestra and audience, who are all later knocked out by noxious gas poured into the hall by S.W.A.T. Some terrorists had anticipated the gas since they put on masks (not all of them), so S.W.A.T. is working for those terrorists or the other way around (basically, it was organized within both parties). The terrorist takeover is only to appear as such so they can apprehend the supposed Plutonium-241 and/or the "Well Dressed Man" who is selling it, because national security reasons.

The Ukrainian drivers with the Americans in the back (including Protag) are posted outside of the Opera House waiting for S.W.A.T. to arrive so they can seamlessly merge with them upon the "raid" because they are also trying to gather the same two things, and they appear to be Sator's men. However, Protag and his crew have different plans as they are really working for the CIA (confirmed by their "twilight world" ID challenge to one another) and trying to get the same two things as well so it doesn't fall into the wrong hands.

One part I don't understand is the gunfire battle going on between S.W.A.T. and the terrorists if they are working together. If they're not working together, how did the terrorists know to bring gas masks or how did S.W.A.T. conveniently arrive on time just as the siege began?

There are more things that I wanted to say, but that bottommost question there is slipping past me at the moment.
I don't think the SWAT is working with the terrorists. The terrorists might have just brought masks just in case. I'm pretty sure the SWAT team is kind of corrupt, and plants bombs at the opera house to make the incident seem even more dangerous to the media (don't know exactly why though). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

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speedy117 wrote:
October 5th, 2020, 1:37 pm
MuffinMcFluffin wrote:
October 5th, 2020, 1:32 pm
Tarssauce wrote:
October 5th, 2020, 1:07 pm


1)
Exactly. The young Kat we see on the boat will just live her life normally up to the red/blue room. That Kat is in the past anyway. Present Kat will just have to hide for two weeks or so and then reunites with her son.
2)
Okay it's been a month since I've last seen the film so your question kinda confused me - a lot. But here's answer:

The Protagonist specifically asked Neil to bring Priya to Oslo. So she was expecting to see Neil not TP. But... this isn't the first time they meet. TP meeting Priya in Oslo happens after the plane crash and they are going forward in time. His objective is to prevent her from telling him about the plutonium which she does when he flies back to Mumbai after the Oslo plane crash. And he would've met Neil at that time since he helped him get to Sanjay Singh.

The first meeting happened almost a week before Oslo. I need to read the script again to confirm this but this is what I think at the moment.
Thanks for confirming on #1.

2)
Thanks, I think you have this right. I thought when they spoke they were before he ever "met her" during the entire movie's runtime. Every time he says "in two days you're going to tell me about [blah blah blah]," I thought that was when he and Neil go up to her residence. I guess they're talking about the time he meets her again down the line. Makes sense now, I was super confused there.

I'm also pretty lost on some aspects of the opening scene. Let's see what I have correct/incorrect so far because this is a messy opening (not as a knock to Nolan, I mean to try and make sense of upon just a few viewings):

Terrorists siege the Opera House in what looks like a hostage situation for the orchestra and audience, who are all later knocked out by noxious gas poured into the hall by S.W.A.T. Some terrorists had anticipated the gas since they put on masks (not all of them), so S.W.A.T. is working for those terrorists or the other way around (basically, it was organized within both parties). The terrorist takeover is only to appear as such so they can apprehend the supposed Plutonium-241 and/or the "Well Dressed Man" who is selling it, because national security reasons.

The Ukrainian drivers with the Americans in the back (including Protag) are posted outside of the Opera House waiting for S.W.A.T. to arrive so they can seamlessly merge with them upon the "raid" because they are also trying to gather the same two things, and they appear to be Sator's men. However, Protag and his crew have different plans as they are really working for the CIA (confirmed by their "twilight world" ID challenge to one another) and trying to get the same two things as well so it doesn't fall into the wrong hands.

One part I don't understand is the gunfire battle going on between S.W.A.T. and the terrorists if they are working together. If they're not working together, how did the terrorists know to bring gas masks or how did S.W.A.T. conveniently arrive on time just as the siege began?

There are more things that I wanted to say, but that bottommost question there is slipping past me at the moment.
I don't think the SWAT is working with the terrorists. The terrorists might have just brought masks just in case. I'm pretty sure the SWAT team is kind of corrupt, and plants bombs at the opera house to make the incident seem even more dangerous to the media (don't know exactly why though). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks, right I forgot to include that last part in my question, in that why do they carry along with a plan that could look like something the terrorists would do? It appears, as you said, they were corrupt in a way.

I'm guessing this is somewhat reflected in the Oslo Freeport heist planning with the plane, and why Protag was questioning Mahir about whether there would be casualties despite having the plane crash be less of a distraction than the dropped gold bars. They use it all as a diversion to get something else they want, but if it's at the cost of human life then Protag isn't all for that, as that nearly had happened in the opening scene.

My other question within (which may be irrelevant) is why are the terrorists there? Other than to simply terrorize, it doesn't seem like they have any rooting interest in either the Plutonium-241 or the Well Dressed Man.

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If I could keep going...

According to Sator's phone call to Protag near the end (because I actually got to hear it this time when I saw it in this theater's mixing), it sounded like he was given inoperable pancreatic cancer as a result of him working in the radiated sites trying to uncover all of the pieces of the algorithm?

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MuffinMcFluffin wrote:
October 5th, 2020, 3:11 pm
If I could keep going...

According to Sator's phone call to Protag near the end (because I actually got to hear it this time when I saw it in this theater's mixing), it sounded like he was given inoperable pancreatic cancer as a result of him working in the radiated sites trying to uncover all of the pieces of the algorithm?
yea, working in the ruins probably increased his chances of getting cancer. but he didnt mind because he knew he was going to be rich from the gold bars sent by the future. he thought he was going to die as a teenager anyway.

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MuffinMcFluffin wrote:
October 5th, 2020, 1:44 pm
speedy117 wrote:
October 5th, 2020, 1:37 pm
MuffinMcFluffin wrote:
October 5th, 2020, 1:32 pm


Thanks for confirming on #1.

2)
Thanks, I think you have this right. I thought when they spoke they were before he ever "met her" during the entire movie's runtime. Every time he says "in two days you're going to tell me about [blah blah blah]," I thought that was when he and Neil go up to her residence. I guess they're talking about the time he meets her again down the line. Makes sense now, I was super confused there.

I'm also pretty lost on some aspects of the opening scene. Let's see what I have correct/incorrect so far because this is a messy opening (not as a knock to Nolan, I mean to try and make sense of upon just a few viewings):

Terrorists siege the Opera House in what looks like a hostage situation for the orchestra and audience, who are all later knocked out by noxious gas poured into the hall by S.W.A.T. Some terrorists had anticipated the gas since they put on masks (not all of them), so S.W.A.T. is working for those terrorists or the other way around (basically, it was organized within both parties). The terrorist takeover is only to appear as such so they can apprehend the supposed Plutonium-241 and/or the "Well Dressed Man" who is selling it, because national security reasons.

The Ukrainian drivers with the Americans in the back (including Protag) are posted outside of the Opera House waiting for S.W.A.T. to arrive so they can seamlessly merge with them upon the "raid" because they are also trying to gather the same two things, and they appear to be Sator's men. However, Protag and his crew have different plans as they are really working for the CIA (confirmed by their "twilight world" ID challenge to one another) and trying to get the same two things as well so it doesn't fall into the wrong hands.

One part I don't understand is the gunfire battle going on between S.W.A.T. and the terrorists if they are working together. If they're not working together, how did the terrorists know to bring gas masks or how did S.W.A.T. conveniently arrive on time just as the siege began?

There are more things that I wanted to say, but that bottommost question there is slipping past me at the moment.
I don't think the SWAT is working with the terrorists. The terrorists might have just brought masks just in case. I'm pretty sure the SWAT team is kind of corrupt, and plants bombs at the opera house to make the incident seem even more dangerous to the media (don't know exactly why though). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks, right I forgot to include that last part in my question, in that why do they carry along with a plan that could look like something the terrorists would do? It appears, as you said, they were corrupt in a way.

I'm guessing this is somewhat reflected in the Oslo Freeport heist planning with the plane, and why Protag was questioning Mahir about whether there would be casualties despite having the plane crash be less of a distraction than the dropped gold bars. They use it all as a diversion to get something else they want, but if it's at the cost of human life then Protag isn't all for that, as that nearly had happened in the opening scene.

My other question within (which may be irrelevant) is why are the terrorists there? Other than to simply terrorize, it doesn't seem like they have any rooting interest in either the Plutonium-241 or the Well Dressed Man.
By my interpretation there were three teams in Opera House also confirmed by Neil.
1)Ukrainian Gov. or Real SWAT
2)The Protagonist
3)Sator
First two teams were sent by Ukrainian Gov.
Real SWAT to blow up the place so it will look like act done by terrorists also some terrorists who had masks just to create chaos.
The Protagonist who was with fake SWAT which was assigned the task of extracting the VIP that's why Protag says "the siege is blind for them to vanish you"
Sator's men were also there may be some terrorists or infiltrating either of SWATs to get that package.

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Caped Crusader wrote:
October 6th, 2020, 9:33 am
MuffinMcFluffin wrote:
October 5th, 2020, 1:44 pm
speedy117 wrote:
October 5th, 2020, 1:37 pm

I don't think the SWAT is working with the terrorists. The terrorists might have just brought masks just in case. I'm pretty sure the SWAT team is kind of corrupt, and plants bombs at the opera house to make the incident seem even more dangerous to the media (don't know exactly why though). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks, right I forgot to include that last part in my question, in that why do they carry along with a plan that could look like something the terrorists would do? It appears, as you said, they were corrupt in a way.

I'm guessing this is somewhat reflected in the Oslo Freeport heist planning with the plane, and why Protag was questioning Mahir about whether there would be casualties despite having the plane crash be less of a distraction than the dropped gold bars. They use it all as a diversion to get something else they want, but if it's at the cost of human life then Protag isn't all for that, as that nearly had happened in the opening scene.

My other question within (which may be irrelevant) is why are the terrorists there? Other than to simply terrorize, it doesn't seem like they have any rooting interest in either the Plutonium-241 or the Well Dressed Man.
By my interpretation there were three teams in Opera House also confirmed by Neil.
1)Ukrainian Gov. or Real SWAT
2)The Protagonist
3)Sator
First two teams were sent by Ukrainian Gov.
Real SWAT to blow up the place so it will look like act done by terrorists also some terrorists who had masks just to create chaos.
The Protagonist who was with fake SWAT which was assigned the task of extracting the VIP that's why Protag says "the siege is blind for them to vanish you"
Sator's men were also there may be some terrorists or infiltrating either of SWATs to get that package.
Thanks, I have to watch it with that in mind. Definitely didn't think of the real S.W.A.T. as fake S.W.A.T., that's for sure haha.

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Can we talk about what Tenet could’ve been for a second? I enjoyed the film to a degree, but feel like Chris missed on having more fun with the concept. You can argue that the story fit the palindrome aspect and so on, but sometimes if your story or ending of a story is preventing you from exploring different ways of showing the unique concept to an audience, especially in fun ways, you may need to change some of the story.

Lots of reddit users had speculations on the story and what it was about that ended up being far more interesting than what was delivered. The inversion concept is so cool and allows the storyteller to turn things on its head, why not, for example, have a reverse firefight scene in an office or building. Imagine how unique it would’ve been to show the good guys, wearing oxygen masks and in the inverted world, running into a place that’s already been shot up, with some dead bodies, and the few bad guys remaining holding smoking guns, as everything inverses back to normal. So the good guys are dodging bullets flying out of walls, dodging turned-over tables that sweep across the floor back into place, imagine The Protagonist using a dead baddie as cover, only for the bullets to inverse through him and now he’s alive and choking out the Protagonist. Or maybe show the characters stuck in the inverted world longer than they anticipated and having to go unnoticed, or just have plans go awry and have the good guys go through conflict, but have it be unique conflict. Again, this is all just theoretical, but there was lots of potential to have fun with the inversion aspect.

I’m as big a Nolan fan as anyone here. But this film was his first where I felt he showed his age, and that he doesn’t quite have the finger on the pulse as he used to. I guess the trailers made it feel like such a unique spy film, where the hero is taken in and taught how to use inversion, and to try to fight against villains who have been using it for nefarious reasons. I’m reading the script now to lookout for any details I maybe missed, but it’s all so straightforward and regular. Make no mistake, the film has awe-inspiring moments, but the story felt like it wasn’t fully developed, or that anyone at the studio had the balls to give Chris notes. I think had there been a few standout set pieces, audiences would’ve been more forgiving on not quite understanding everything. Sorta like The Matrix: a high concept idea dressed in cool action scenes that was unlike anything seen at the time.

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I haven’t been to the forums in a while and it’s been a month since I saw the movie.

I still have a lot of questions, but (a quite simple) one is nagging me:
In the third act battle, how does reversed Neil enter the tunnel to open the door for the Protagonist with the tunnel blocked from the trip mine? Is the turn machine underground as well?

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