Yeah, I get your point completely now because then it stops making sense again for me.
If it's just buried there for the "people from the future" then why wouldn't the Tenet organization just dig it up before the "people from the future"? Why the need for the countdown and the battle at all then if they could just retrieve it later? Does the film ever mention they don't have the technology to dig? or maybe it's because of some sort of deadly radiation in Stalsk that will only subside in the future?
Also to my point above why wouldn't the "people from the future" just invert themselves to the point right before the scientist sends the algorithm to the past and kills herself, steal the algorithm from the scientist and activate it, instead of having this convoluted messaging system with a Russian oligarch in the past? I thought they wanted it to be used in the past... but now it's just a mess.
That’s not possible.
It is mentioned in the film that the exchange between Sator and the future happens instantly.
Think of it this way... people in the future exist with us right now and they are communicating with us. The tomb (dead drop) works as a time capsule they have immediate access to its content. Once the algorithm is buried down there and the location is transmitted after Sator’s death we’re toast.
To answer your second question, they might have gone back but they cannot change anything that already happened. She successfully hid the algorithm and killed herself. Them going back will not change that. That’s true for the entire film.
The Protagonist going back for Kat therefore giving him the last piece of the algorithm is not something he could’ve prevented because it already happened but he experienced it again from another perspective.
Yeah, I get your point completely now because then it stops making sense again for me.
If it's just buried there for the "people from the future" then why wouldn't the Tenet organization just dig it up before the "people from the future"? Why the need for the countdown and the battle at all then if they could just retrieve it later? Does the film ever mention they don't have the technology to dig? or maybe it's because of some sort of deadly radiation in Stalsk that will only subside in the future?
Also to my point above why wouldn't the "people from the future" just invert themselves to the point right before the scientist sends the algorithm to the past and kills herself, steal the algorithm from the scientist and activate it, instead of having this convoluted messaging system with a Russian oligarch in the past? I thought they wanted it to be used in the past... but now it's just a mess.
That’s not possible.
It is mentioned in the film that the exchange between Sator and the future happens instantly.
Think of it this way... people in the future exist with us right now and they are communicating with us. The tomb (dead drop) works as a time capsule they have immediate access to its content. Once the algorithm is buried down there and the location is transmitted after Sator’s death we’re toast.
To answer your second question, they might have gone back but they cannot change anything that already happened. She successfully hid the algorithm and killed herself. Them going back will not change that. That’s true for the entire film.
The Protagonist going back for Kat therefore giving him the last piece of the algorithm is not something he could’ve prevented because it already happened but he experienced it again from another perspective.
The instant access would only work if
nobody ever dug up the algorithm. Tenet thus works under the assumption that they would not be able to dig it up and thus the "future people" get immediate access. But Tenet never digging it up makes as much sense as Sator just saying "I'll leave the algorithm on my bedside table, nobody will come for it" and the future people get immediate access to it. Of course he cannot do it because people will eventually come for it. Just like with the tomb. Sure, it's slightly more difficult to get now that it's under a pile of rubble but considering they know the exact location, they can still EASILY dig it up and take it just like they would if Sator just left it on his bedside table.
To my second point - the same case can (and is made by the film) for the Sator mission since the past already exists, which means they should already know they failed. Changing it would be a paradox but that's what they're banking on and hoping for (as stated in the film - "they're desperate"), so why wouldn't they bank on a much simpler mission to change past events?
Last edited by LelekPL on September 8th, 2020, 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Well, for me it's a positive, not negative, Vader.
i love breaking down the rules of a nolan movie as much as the next guy, but if a bunch of film nerds can't understand the macguffin how is the general audience supposed to
it's one thing to try and figure out specific rules or scenes, it's something totally different to have only have a hazy idea (at best) what anyone is trying to achieve in the last half of the movie.
This is especially true when all we have to invest in are the stakes and not an emotional arc ala Cobb or Cooper. For that to work at all the stakes have to be crystal clear, but Nolan is denying the audience both. It's a massive misstep.
-Vader
Last edited by Vader182 on September 8th, 2020, 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I thought the algorithm was already active and would destroy the world the moment Sator dies, and so when he did and nothing happened, I thought I missed the moment they defused it. But later I realised it apparently was never active in the first place, since they stopped Sator's guy from doing so (the guy was trying to reach something idk). Did I get that right?
Well, for me it's a positive, not negative, Vader.
i love breaking down the rules of a nolan movie as much as the next guy, but if a bunch of film nerds can't understand the macguffin how is the general audience supposed to
-Vader
In terms of general audience, I believe all they need to think is that if Sator dies before they get the algorithm out of there, the world ends. I don't think the general audience cares about these details as much as we do. I also don't like to make assumptions though, but that is my view
I thought the algorithm was already active and would destroy the world the moment Sator dies, and so when he did and nothing happened, I thought I missed the moment they defused it. But later I realised it apparently was never active in the first place, since they stopped Sator's guy from doing so (the guy was trying to reach something idk). Did I get that right?
I'm with you.
I thought they had to remove the algorithm from the tunnel bc it was hooked up to the detonation device, and they got it out before the 10 second trigger when Sator killed himself.
Now I'm completely lost on what the battle was even over/what Ives and The Protagonist were doing.
I thought the algorithm was already active and would destroy the world the moment Sator dies, and so when he did and nothing happened, I thought I missed the moment they defused it. But later I realised it apparently was never active in the first place, since they stopped Sator's guy from doing so (the guy was trying to reach something idk). Did I get that right?
I'm with you.
I thought they had to remove the algorithm from the tunnel bc it was hooked up to the detonation device, and they got it out before the 10 second trigger when Sator killed himself.
Now I'm completely lost on what the battle was even over/what Ives and The Protagonist were doing.
I've made my peace with the fact that when Sator dies, the location of the dead-drop is transmitted and the algorithm is buried. Because we know from earlier in the movie that the dead-drop is a near instantaneous handoff between future and past, as soon as it's buried, the future has it and will activate it. I am open to be convinced otherwise, but this makes the most sense to me. Especially after the line "A man in a (christaline??) tower flips a switch, and Armageddon is both caused and avoided" which I think refers to someone in the future activating it.
I thought the algorithm was already active and would destroy the world the moment Sator dies, and so when he did and nothing happened, I thought I missed the moment they defused it. But later I realised it apparently was never active in the first place, since they stopped Sator's guy from doing so (the guy was trying to reach something idk). Did I get that right?
I'm with you.
I thought they had to remove the algorithm from the tunnel bc it was hooked up to the detonation device, and they got it out before the 10 second trigger when Sator killed himself.
Now I'm completely lost on what the battle was even over/what Ives and The Protagonist were doing.
I've made my peace with the fact that when Sator dies, the location of the dead-drop is transmitted and the algorithm is buried. Because we know from earlier in the movie that the dead-drop is a near instantaneous handoff between future and past, as soon as it's buried, the future has it and will activate it. I am open to be convinced otherwise, but this makes the most sense to me. Especially after the line "A man in a (christaline??) tower flips a switch, and Armageddon is both caused and avoided" which I think refers to someone in the future activating it.
I'm pretty sure it's said when Sator dies the algorithm destroys the world. The people in the future want to set it off in the past, not in their time, so they can't do it themselves and need Sator for that.
I think in the movie we see the moment when the algorithm was supposed to be activated by Sator's man and to be buried, but the Protagonist and Ives barely prevent that. And since before the mission they didn't knew if they would manage to get it before the activation, Kat wasn't supposed to kill Sator before they got the algorithm. They were very lucky that it wasn't active yet when Kat killed him.
It's weird though. Instead of the climax being "Can they diffuse the algorithm fast enough before Kat kills Sator?" it's "Can they prevent the activation now that Sator is dead?"
Last edited by Dobson on September 8th, 2020, 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
or maybe it's because of some sort of deadly radiation in Stalsk that will only subside in the future?
