[SPOILER] Discussion/Speculation Thread

Christopher Nolan's time inverting spy film that follows a protagonist fighting for the survival of the entire world.
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Clowmount
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Joined: December 2016
Coop Cooper wrote: ↑
September 2nd, 2020, 6:34 pm
mario80 wrote: ↑
September 2nd, 2020, 1:31 pm
LelekPL wrote: ↑
September 2nd, 2020, 8:24 am
He didn't throw it to himself. He was trying to give it to Sator. The inverted JDW tried to take it over.
Nope I’ve seen the scene 3 times and watched carefully
JDW talks to Neil about giving Sator the case, the chase begins.(Bmw/reversed Audi)
Crashed Saab in the middle of the road un-crashes and becomes part of the chase.
JDW tosses the orange case from the Bmw to Sator’s Audi.
A glimpse of JDW keeping the piece of the Algorithm AND the empty orange case while the grey Saab arrives in the middle between the BMW and the Audi can be seen.
JDW is kidnapped and tells Sator the Algotithm piece is in the BMW (blue room / red room scene).
Neil team intervenes and explains temporal pincer movement.JDW tells Neil he lied to Sator about the artifact being in the BMW(standard operational procedure).
Inverted Sator exits the airlock and goes with the Audi to retrieve the piece.
JDW inverts himself and drives the Saab to the empty orange case thrown away in the middle of the road by Sator’s men and lying on the sidewalk,then drives frenetically back to the exchange with Sator (Bmw/Audi) in reverse.
Inverted Sator tells via radio to his team that JDW lied and the piece is not in the BMW.
We see the piece of the Algorithm rattle out from the Saab back to the BMW where non-inverted JDW was in the past.
The Saab with inverted JDW crashes.
Inverted Sator tells inverted JDW he’s seen the exchange and torches the Saab
Did non inverted JDW know that he was in the Saab? Because if not, why did he throw the piece of the algorithm into the Saab?
It seems like he knew. We see a shot of him looking directly at inverted JDW right after we see Sator looking at inverted JDW
bbedford
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Coop Cooper wrote: ↑
September 2nd, 2020, 6:32 pm
Durden wrote: ↑
September 2nd, 2020, 5:08 pm
 I know little details might work against this but the theory that
Neil is Kats son makes a lot of sense as well. One of the first things he says to the protagonist is would you protect a child? Also "when we are done with all of this you can learn my life story" is a nice setup for the last scene of the film. Neil is often very close and caring with kat as well especially when she is injured.
idk just the way i watched the film the more I had that in my head the more things aligned
Supposedly the coin
that is attached to Neil's red string is a Vietnamese coin..... I've only heard that, but I would love a confirmation. Because if so...
I noticed this as well (am Vietnamese).
Now, a lot of Asian coins look similar, for example Chinese coins are also circular and gold with a square hole in it... but it’s certainly an intentional hint in my opinion.
One scene that I can’t get out of my head, and I’m hoping for some help on...
After the speed sailing scene, Sator invites JDW into his room on the boat. They have a drink together, and when JDW comments about Kat undoing his harness, JDW says something like “Oh, you think that was her trying to kill me? You’re mistaken.” What does Sator know at this point that JDW doesn’t? I can’t figure it out. Also small details in this scene jump out at me - Sator commenting that he has the pulse of younger Manx the way it shows him taking off his belt (alluding to the future scene of him about to beat Kat?)
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Tarssauce
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Gotta say the most confusing part to me is the red room blue room sequence. I just cannot understand how that works.

-Present Sator brings Kat to the warehouse and walks out.
-Suddenly we see her with inverted Sator on the road
-Sator’s men capture both The Protagonist and Kat
-Inverted Sator looks in the glove compartment in the BMW, searching for the artifact
-We go back to the warehouse
-Inverted Sator shoots Kat and The Protagonist lies to Sator about where the artifact is.
-Present Sator emerges in the red room and interrogates The Protagonist
-Ives and company arrive
-Sator goes into the turnstile on both sides and vanishes
-We see things from Sator’s point of view as kinda he unshoots Kat and takes her out of the blue room CUT and Kat unconscious on the chair
-Ives says Sator went into the past.

I DON’T UNDERSTAND - DOES NOT COMPUTE.

If Sator coming out on the blue side is the start of his trip to the car chase then how was Kat with him since he can’t take her. Unless, she’s in the warehouse already gets “unshoot” by Sator, he takes her to the chase with him then she gets captured again almost like a closed loop.

And another thing... Sator getting the last piece of the algorithm. The Protagonist has it in his hand as he throws the empty case at Sator. I don’t think it was in Saab as all windows were shut. It was in the BMW just not in the glove compartment - but if that’s true he could’ve seen it and kinda grabbed it the way be eventually does.
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Sandy
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Law wrote: ↑
September 1st, 2020, 9:04 am
 Anyone else kind of upset there
wasn't a climatic ending like Nolan's previous films.. it kind of just, ends.
"Oh well allow me to retort"
You have a point, but I do think that this was a bit of a changeup in Nolans filmography. Sure, there was no huge monologue or spinning top, but the big emotional moment preceding the ending was enough for me. Pattinson is baller and that dialogue was dope. But I definitely see your point.
mario80
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Joined: December 2019
Tarssauce wrote: ↑
September 2nd, 2020, 10:36 pm
Gotta say the most confusing part to me is the red room blue room sequence. I just cannot understand how that works.

-Present Sator brings Kat to the warehouse and walks out.
-Suddenly we see her with inverted Sator on the road
-Sator’s men capture both The Protagonist and Kat
-Inverted Sator looks in the glove compartment in the BMW, searching for the artifact
-We go back to the warehouse
-Inverted Sator shoots Kat and The Protagonist lies to Sator about where the artifact is.
-Present Sator emerges in the red room and interrogates The Protagonist
-Ives and company arrive
-Sator goes into the turnstile on both sides and vanishes
-We see things from Sator’s point of view as kinda he unshoots Kat and takes her out of the blue room CUT and Kat unconscious on the chair
-Ives says Sator went into the past.

I DON’T UNDERSTAND - DOES NOT COMPUTE.

If Sator coming out on the blue side is the start of his trip to the car chase then how was Kat with him since he can’t take her. Unless, she’s in the warehouse already gets “unshoot” by Sator, he takes her to the chase with him then she gets captured again almost like a closed loop.

And another thing... Sator getting the last piece of the algorithm. The Protagonist has it in his hand as he throws the empty case at Sator. I don’t think it was in Saab as all windows were shut. It was in the BMW just not in the glove compartment - but if that’s true he could’ve seen it and kinda grabbed it the way be eventually does.
https://imgur.com/a/ICS32zA Exchange from non-inverted JDW POV
and from inverted JDW POV in the SAAB https://imgur.com/a/b69uu7v -passenger's seat window MUST be open at that moment otherwise artifact couldn't exit the vehicle and drop back into non-inverted JDW hand in BMW.-
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DHOPW42
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Okay guys, there's one thing I can't wrap my head around... and someone already mentioned this before, but I'm not sure if it was answered:
When the inverted Protagonist goes back with the silver-colored car to catch up with the car chase, the piece of the algorythm jumps out of his silver car. And it jumps into the hands of the "normal" Protagonist. This means, the Protagonist originally threw the algorythm into the silver car, because - supposedly - he saw that it was himself in the inverted silver car. But then, when he gets inverted and drives back, he... forgets about this? Because it's still HIM who threw the algorythm into the same car. Right?
mario80
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Joined: December 2019
That’s right.Question remains unanswered.Maybe he knows but I think not.Maybe he
throws it instincively in the Saab without knowing the effect like in the bullet scene with female scientist at the beginning of the movie
Lynn
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Sandy wrote: ↑
September 2nd, 2020, 11:35 pm
Law wrote: ↑
September 1st, 2020, 9:04 am
 Anyone else kind of upset there
wasn't a climatic ending like Nolan's previous films.. it kind of just, ends.
"Oh well allow me to retort"
You have a point, but I do think that this was a bit of a changeup in Nolans filmography. Sure, there was no huge monologue or spinning top, but the big emotional moment preceding the ending was enough for me. Pattinson is baller and that dialogue was dope. But I definitely see your point.
I actually liked the last shot.
I've only seen the film once so I may have missed something, but I think Kat's arc parallels the free will/determinism theme of the entire film. At the beginning of the film, she sees herself as choiceless, her present and future life forever determined by a past mistake.
The failed attempt to steal and destroy the fake Goya symbolizes an attempt at changing/erasing the past - something that the film proves to be an impossible paradox. She can't change her past. But she can change her future. Just like she dived into the water, she walks with Max into the unknown. Into freedom.

By the way, does anybody know if/where I can find a transcript of
- the phone call between Sator and the Protagonist
- the last dialogue between Neil and the Protagonist?
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666kalpa
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DHOPW42
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666kalpa wrote: ↑
September 3rd, 2020, 2:10 pm
I swear the movie is easier to follow than this.
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