[SPOILER] Discussion/Speculation Thread

Christopher Nolan's time inverting spy film that follows a protagonist fighting for the survival of the entire world.
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Tarssauce
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Oh one hand, I love the idea of a self-contained movie / universe and how it forces our imagination to wander. On the other hand, I’d love to see a sequel/prequel to this. He could do movies in between like he did with the TDK trilogy.
morlock84
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I still don't understand how the hell
Sator gets the algorithm piece in Tallinn. After the protagonist lies to him about it being in the BMW, he goes back to the gunfight moment with the non-inverted Kat where he searches the BMW and does not find it, so he goes further in the past. Meanwhile, the protagonist goes after him, unaware that the algorithm piece is in his car, because past himself throwed it in. When he gets to Sator, he sees the piece rattling around him and going back in the hand of his past self, and then he crashes. How does Sator get it ?
Also
when Kat is wounded from the inverted bullet, why do they need to invert her ? How does it help ? Also why do they go back to Oslo instead of staying there in Tallinn and then invert her back when she's healed ?
:think:
ninenin
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morlock84 wrote: ↑
August 29th, 2020, 3:30 pm
 I still don't understand how the hell
Sator gets the algorithm piece in Tallinn. After the protagonist lies to him about it being in the BMW, he goes back to the gunfight moment with the non-inverted Kat where he searches the BMW and does not find it, so he goes further in the past. Meanwhile, the protagonist goes after him, unaware that the algorithm piece is in his car, because past himself throwed it in. When he gets to Sator, he sees the piece rattling around him and going back in the hand of his past self, and then he crashes. How does Sator get it ?
Also
when Kat is wounded from the inverted bullet, why do they need to invert her ? How does it help ? Also why do they go back to Oslo instead of staying there in Tallinn and then invert her back when she's healed ?
:think:
I'm guessing Sator just needs to follow the BMW back in time to the moment the protagonist steals the cube from the truck (from the inverted perspective he would be placing it back in the truck). Sator would just need to steal it from the truck after that. My guess is that inverting someone who has been shot by an inverted bullet reverses the effect of the radiation over time.
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Oku
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morlock84 wrote: ↑
August 29th, 2020, 3:30 pm
 I still don't understand how the hell
Sator gets the algorithm piece in Tallinn. After the protagonist lies to him about it being in the BMW, he goes back to the gunfight moment with the non-inverted Kat where he searches the BMW and does not find it, so he goes further in the past. Meanwhile, the protagonist goes after him, unaware that the algorithm piece is in his car, because past himself throwed it in. When he gets to Sator, he sees the piece rattling around him and going back in the hand of his past self, and then he crashes. How does Sator get it ?
Also
when Kat is wounded from the inverted bullet, why do they need to invert her ? How does it help ? Also why do they go back to Oslo instead of staying there in Tallinn and then invert her back when she's healed ?
:think:
1. It happens off-screen, leaving it to the viewer's imagination.

Most likely scenario: Sator un-inverts himself, then quietly steals it from the Saab while it's parked outside on his property.

2. Because according to the movie's pseudo-science, a forward person can't survive long from a wound caused by an inverted round, 'cause of the inverse radiation or whatever.

And so the patient needs to spend however long you would normally need to recover from said wound (which is a week, which sounds reasonable(?) for an abdominal wound), but in inverse time.

Basically, it's a flimsy excuse for the script to have them go back to Oslo and have that badass stretcher-running scene + the Protagonist fighting himself.

But they are such stand-out scenes that the flimsy pseudo-science reason is excusable.
ninenin
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Oku wrote: ↑
August 29th, 2020, 9:31 pm
morlock84 wrote: ↑
August 29th, 2020, 3:30 pm
 I still don't understand how the hell
Sator gets the algorithm piece in Tallinn. After the protagonist lies to him about it being in the BMW, he goes back to the gunfight moment with the non-inverted Kat where he searches the BMW and does not find it, so he goes further in the past. Meanwhile, the protagonist goes after him, unaware that the algorithm piece is in his car, because past himself throwed it in. When he gets to Sator, he sees the piece rattling around him and going back in the hand of his past self, and then he crashes. How does Sator get it ?
Also
when Kat is wounded from the inverted bullet, why do they need to invert her ? How does it help ? Also why do they go back to Oslo instead of staying there in Tallinn and then invert her back when she's healed ?
:think:
1. It happens off-screen, leaving it to the viewer's imagination.

Most likely scenario: Sator un-inverts himself, then quietly steals it from the Saab while it's parked outside on his property.

2. Because according to the movie's pseudo-science, a forward person can't survive long from a wound caused by an inverted round, 'cause of the inverse radiation or whatever.

And so the patient needs to spend however long you would normally need to recover from said wound (which is a week, which sounds reasonable(?) for an abdominal wound), but in inverse time.

Basically, it's a flimsy excuse for the script to have them go back to Oslo and have that badass stretcher-running scene + the Protagonist fighting himself.

But they are such stand-out scenes that the flimsy pseudo-science reason is excusable.
Regarding the first point,
I think you are right. But Sator would have to revert himslef and travel forward in time until the point after the protagonist, Neil, Kat and Ives invert themselves, to grab it from the Saab. Also he would have to do it covertly, because presumably Tenet captured his warehouse facility after their army stormed in. Had they only checked the Saab they would've found it.
Clowmount
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I'm a bit confused how
Kat was shot inverted in the blue room, then we see her in a stretcher in the red room and they invert her again to stop the inverse radiation. How does she get into the red room in the first place?
also found it funny how
At the freeport as they pick the second locked door, Neil whispers "There's someone in here with us", and then immediately helps JDW unlock the rotas room door as if he completely forgot what he just said, even loudly saying "need a hand?" ..
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LelekPL
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I'm shocked we're not talking more about Neil and the Protagonist's relationship:
Especially the theory that Neil is Max. It both makes a lot of sense and doesn't for various reasons.

First, it would fit with what Neil said about the long friendship that awaits him and JDW. Second, Max, or Maximilien, is Neilimixam backwards, or Neil. And Neil still seemed to be quite emotionally involved with the events of the film.

What would argue against that, however, is the logic of inversion in this movie. Max is about 10 years old during the events of the end of the movie. Depending on how old Neil is in the movie, let's say Pattinson's age of 35, Max would have to be about 20 to be recruited by JDW, then go back 10-15 years to the events of the movie, living time in reverse. Not impossible, but not very rational.

However, there's another theory we haven't discussed which is pretty awesome - namely, we do not know what effect a person's inversion has on the body (they all went back too insignificant amounts of time in terms of the aging process to notice any difference). If inversion was causing the aging process to reverse, a'la Benjamin Button, Max could have lived a long life with JDW and then traveled back in time X number of years, maybe even 50, to the events of the movie and would be young again as Neil. Of course, there is also a problem here, because that would mean that he would have to live 50 years in the opposite direction of time to the rest of the world, but considering the importance of the events in this film and what's at stake, it is a sacrifice that might have been necessary for Max/Neil.
Ruth
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Lelek, your second theory re:effects on body of inversion are what I’ve been thinking all along.
The time span the film takes in is no more then a couple of weeks - clearly not long enough to see what the effects inversion would have on someone’s biological “clock”. Inverted people even need their own air, as they can’t breath the regular air. It’s not impossible to assume that inversion also inverts aging - none of the characters would age or de-age enough within the film to see a difference, but it could make a difference for Neil’s relationship with the protagonist, and would explain away their friendship, even if Neil ISN’T Max. If he’s not, he could have met the protagonist as an adult, they could both age into whatever age they were when Tenet was discovered, then Neil inverts himself, and ages down to his early/mid 30s for the events of the film. It really makes sense in my mind tbh.
edit: also adding
I really have no problem with Neil being Max and the protagonist being his mentor, then sending him back since he’s the only one he trusts (also because the timeline is cyclical, and they both know it’s the successful path). My only gripe is this is VERY John Connor/Kyle Reese-ey. Idk how I feel about that.
jetsdude
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LelekPL wrote: ↑
August 30th, 2020, 5:43 am
 I'm shocked we're not talking more about Neil and the Protagonist's relationship:
Especially the theory that Neil is Max. It both makes a lot of sense and doesn't for various reasons.

First, it would fit with what Neil said about the long friendship that awaits him and JDW. Second, Max, or Maximilien, is Neilimixam backwards, or Neil. And Neil still seemed to be quite emotionally involved with the events of the film.

What would argue against that, however, is the logic of inversion in this movie. Max is about 10 years old during the events of the end of the movie. Depending on how old Neil is in the movie, let's say Pattinson's age of 35, Max would have to be about 20 to be recruited by JDW, then go back 10-15 years to the events of the movie, living time in reverse. Not impossible, but not very rational.

However, there's another theory we haven't discussed which is pretty awesome - namely, we do not know what effect a person's inversion has on the body (they all went back too insignificant amounts of time in terms of the aging process to notice any difference). If inversion was causing the aging process to reverse, a'la Benjamin Button, Max could have lived a long life with JDW and then traveled back in time X number of years, maybe even 50, to the events of the movie and would be young again as Neil. Of course, there is also a problem here, because that would mean that he would have to live 50 years in the opposite direction of time to the rest of the world, but considering the importance of the events in this film and what's at stake, it is a sacrifice that might have been necessary for Max/Neil.
Also keep in mind...
Neil knows he dies right. He's the one who tells us "if u see yourself on the other side it means u make it." He doesn't see himself on the other side. Next, he says his opinion is "it's here and now that matters"...this leads me to believe that he's been inverting and reverting for a long time to come to this conclusion. He's telling the audience to savor every moment with the people you're with. That's partly why he's so relaxed and positive all movie. If you knew you died you'd have no choice but to live your life backwards. It would be impossible to know Neil's true "age" just by looking at him and he likely is Max.
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LelekPL
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Ruth wrote: ↑
August 30th, 2020, 6:10 am
 Lelek, your second theory re:effects on body of inversion are what I’ve been thinking all along.
The time span the film takes in is no more then a couple of weeks - clearly not long enough to see what the effects inversion would have on someone’s biological “clock”. Inverted people even need their own air, as they can’t breath the regular air. It’s not impossible to assume that inversion also inverts aging - none of the characters would age or de-age enough within the film to see a difference, but it could make a difference for Neil’s relationship with the protagonist, and would explain away their friendship, even if Neil ISN’T Max. If he’s not, he could have met the protagonist as an adult, they could both age into whatever age they were when Tenet was discovered, then Neil inverts himself, and ages down to his early/mid 30s for the events of the film. It really makes sense in my mind tbh.
edit: also adding
I really have no problem with Neil being Max and the protagonist being his mentor, then sending him back since he’s the only one he trusts (also because the timeline is cyclical, and they both know it’s the successful path). My only gripe is this is VERY John Connor/Kyle Reese-ey. Idk how I feel about that.
Ok, so I have excluded part of this theory...
I don't think you age in reverse when inverted due to math:
Let's say the events in the movie happen in 2020. Max is 10 years old. Let's say he is later recruited and trained by JDW. They become friends and live a long life. Max is now 50, the year is 2060. He then decides to invert back to the past to 2020 to take part in the events of the film as Neil and he ages in reverse while living in the room we see in the film that allows him to live. Once he gets to 2020 he would be... 10 years old again so the theory doesn't work. In order for Max to be Neil he would have to age normally even once inverted.

So the only way this works is Neil grows up to be say 20 years old in 2030 and then is sent 10 years backwards to 2020 where he is around 30 as we see Neil in the film.

The only way you can age backwards in this universe is if Neil is not Max and he already was a 30-year-old person in 2020. He then could have been recruited and have a long friendship with JDW, live to his 60's in 2050 and then invert, de-age 30 years and be 30 years old in 2020.

To sump up, either you believe in deaging and Neil is just Neil or you believe Neil is Max and he inverted ten years into the future to be 30 during the events of the film. Since I think Neil is Max then I tend to exclude the theory you age backwards. Both theories are equally fascinating and interesting in their own right, though.
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