I posted this in another thread, trying to think through what the sequence of events must be...Pr0creation wrote: ↑May 29th, 2020, 1:06 pmThat's why i believe he is an inverted person because why would bullets be in the wall when they have to be manufactured for inversion?
Prologue
Yeah, I see your point, but look at the movement of the man. He's not only running away, he also does a little jump. He can be trained as hell, but that movement is impossible if you watch it backwards.Pr0creation wrote: ↑May 29th, 2020, 12:04 pmI think he and others have inversion training to walk and operate backwards to seem normal in an inverted world. I'm 90% sure this will be a twist lol.
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In the newly published Total Film article on Tenet, this line on character sacrifices struck me.
https://imgur.com/a/ePe6z3u
I read into it as a resolution to the clone paradox. Where travelling back through leave you as a second copy and your first copy has no incentive to go back, especially if you save your own copies life. Therefore, you self terminate, or continue on a very dangerous mission with high risk high reward and either fail, or succeed and self terminate.
Regarding the non-backwards movement of the Mysterious Stranger in the opera house:
He could be using an inverted gun but he himself is moving forward.
1. JDW dies to the aisle-man in the original timeline.
2. Stranger learns of it and then goes back in time to save him.
3. Stranger, in reverse mode, shoots the killer.
4. Stranger, while still travelling backwards in time, drops the gun, and then creates some time before he enters the forward-machine.
5. Stranger goes into the forward machine, picks up the dropped (inverted) gun, his copy who is reversing but waiting to enter the forward machine is nearby.
6. this wait-time produces enough lead time for Stranger (who is now going forward in time) to head to opera house and perform the kill before reverse-stranger can, but with the same gun.
7. Stranger performs normal-walk-strut and save JDW in the prologue seen, but sucking up the inverse-bullets with the inverse-gun.
8. Stranger is now stranded in a world where JDW being saved, his original self doesn't need to go back in time. Yet, there are 2 copies of himself.
Resolving the multiple clones/copies could be seen as sacrificing oneself, literally, to preserve the normalcy. However, I think a better use would be to permanently be on retainer as a secret agent and just do more time-shit until death out in the field.
Like, anyone who knowingly submits to using a reverse machine, has to be committed to either living an exile life and not seeing their civilian friends and family. And be watched closely so as not to kidnap/steal their original lives.
https://imgur.com/a/ePe6z3u
I read into it as a resolution to the clone paradox. Where travelling back through leave you as a second copy and your first copy has no incentive to go back, especially if you save your own copies life. Therefore, you self terminate, or continue on a very dangerous mission with high risk high reward and either fail, or succeed and self terminate.
Regarding the non-backwards movement of the Mysterious Stranger in the opera house:
He could be using an inverted gun but he himself is moving forward.
1. JDW dies to the aisle-man in the original timeline.
2. Stranger learns of it and then goes back in time to save him.
3. Stranger, in reverse mode, shoots the killer.
4. Stranger, while still travelling backwards in time, drops the gun, and then creates some time before he enters the forward-machine.
5. Stranger goes into the forward machine, picks up the dropped (inverted) gun, his copy who is reversing but waiting to enter the forward machine is nearby.
6. this wait-time produces enough lead time for Stranger (who is now going forward in time) to head to opera house and perform the kill before reverse-stranger can, but with the same gun.
7. Stranger performs normal-walk-strut and save JDW in the prologue seen, but sucking up the inverse-bullets with the inverse-gun.
8. Stranger is now stranded in a world where JDW being saved, his original self doesn't need to go back in time. Yet, there are 2 copies of himself.
Resolving the multiple clones/copies could be seen as sacrificing oneself, literally, to preserve the normalcy. However, I think a better use would be to permanently be on retainer as a secret agent and just do more time-shit until death out in the field.
Like, anyone who knowingly submits to using a reverse machine, has to be committed to either living an exile life and not seeing their civilian friends and family. And be watched closely so as not to kidnap/steal their original lives.
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Yea but remember this is still a movie. It could be a agent who is so well-trained in time inversion that he can mimick reverse movement so realistically.quervo wrote: ↑May 29th, 2020, 4:02 pmYeah, I see your point, but look at the movement of the man. He's not only running away, he also does a little jump. He can be trained as hell, but that movement is impossible if you watch it backwards.Pr0creation wrote: ↑May 29th, 2020, 12:04 pmI think he and others have inversion training to walk and operate backwards to seem normal in an inverted world. I'm 90% sure this will be a twist lol.
Also, I still think there's a possibility that that agent is JDW or Pattinson inverted. I think they inverse things too much that parallel universe starts to intersect. It's a bit far fetch but I think this movie gets really complicated.
According to the earliest leak of Tenet last year before filming begin, there seems to be talk of parallel universe converging into one. This could be what is Nolan going for. It may not be right but I think there's still the possibility.
How tf is this still a discussion? There is NO WAY that the guy is inverted. I don't care if he's a special agent who has had 150 hours worth of training to look normal when he's in the reverse timeline, there's no way you can be reversing and make it seem like you are actually moving forwards through time. This discussion was viable before the trailer, but after watching the trailer WE KNOW INVERTED OBJECTS EXIST. So why is it so hard to wrap your head around that idea?
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Because there's a chicken and egg problem of how do you get the bullet fired in the first place, and at the exact same spot you need to. I am with you actually. I think those inverted bullets are manufactured such that you can set them up to reverse-shot someone. I doubt that agent is moving backwards in time.speedy117 wrote: ↑May 29th, 2020, 7:49 pmHow tf is this still a discussion? There is NO WAY that the guy is inverted. I don't care if he's a special agent who has had 150 hours worth of training to look normal when he's in the reverse timeline, there's no way you can be reversing and make it seem like you are actually moving forwards through time. This discussion was viable before the trailer, but after watching the trailer WE KNOW INVERTED OBJECTS EXIST. So why is it so hard to wrap your head around that idea?
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Bullet got there while fired in reverse by someone inverse.
Mysterious Stranger enters the machine AFTER JDW and co. fail the Opera House.
MS reverses through to the point when JDW un-dies, shoots the killer, MS drops his gun somewhere handy, and then MS continues reversing and enters the machine again.
MS then returns to the opera house (in forward-time), stops his reversed-self from moonwalking all backwards n shit and shoves the clone in a closet, (or kills him, or talks to him and tells him to fuck off or this was all apart of his plan and he knows to walk away with some sort of preset signal, like the gun being gone when he returns for it). Forward-MS gets his dropped inverted-gun and then waits/syncs up with the moment it is fired and saves JDW. No bullet evidence for normal folk to inspect (time cops play it by the book), yet no evidence == semi-evidence of fuckery i.e. inversion but i doubt the bad guys care, they know about inversion already and know they are being chased by the good guys)
There, you have a normal moving MS, and inverted gun + inverted bullet. An alive JDW. Which is what we see in the prologue.
Now, it doesn't have to be the MS who fired the gun. But it does have to be that same gun. And the gun had to have been fired while in reverse.
It could have been JDW as the MS but only if, instead of performing all the steps outlined above, the MS instead simply travels back in time and tips off JDW. Then, JDW goes back, before the siege, then goes forward past the siege without saving himself in normal forward time with forward-gun and bullets, then after the failed siege where his original self dies, he goes back and performs the steps MS did in the original outline. Makes no sense, he ought to have just forward-shot and saved himself.
The MS has the best vantage to pull off the save, with the least amount of use of the machine. JDW isn't the MS.
Mysterious Stranger enters the machine AFTER JDW and co. fail the Opera House.
MS reverses through to the point when JDW un-dies, shoots the killer, MS drops his gun somewhere handy, and then MS continues reversing and enters the machine again.
MS then returns to the opera house (in forward-time), stops his reversed-self from moonwalking all backwards n shit and shoves the clone in a closet, (or kills him, or talks to him and tells him to fuck off or this was all apart of his plan and he knows to walk away with some sort of preset signal, like the gun being gone when he returns for it). Forward-MS gets his dropped inverted-gun and then waits/syncs up with the moment it is fired and saves JDW. No bullet evidence for normal folk to inspect (time cops play it by the book), yet no evidence == semi-evidence of fuckery i.e. inversion but i doubt the bad guys care, they know about inversion already and know they are being chased by the good guys)
There, you have a normal moving MS, and inverted gun + inverted bullet. An alive JDW. Which is what we see in the prologue.
Now, it doesn't have to be the MS who fired the gun. But it does have to be that same gun. And the gun had to have been fired while in reverse.
It could have been JDW as the MS but only if, instead of performing all the steps outlined above, the MS instead simply travels back in time and tips off JDW. Then, JDW goes back, before the siege, then goes forward past the siege without saving himself in normal forward time with forward-gun and bullets, then after the failed siege where his original self dies, he goes back and performs the steps MS did in the original outline. Makes no sense, he ought to have just forward-shot and saved himself.
The MS has the best vantage to pull off the save, with the least amount of use of the machine. JDW isn't the MS.
Last edited by jcmtg on May 29th, 2020, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
That's actually very interesting, but it's kind of confusing to explain to a normal audience. I understand this film isn't going to be easy to understand but this seems a little too far fetched.jcmtg wrote: ↑May 29th, 2020, 10:52 pmBullet got there while fired in reverse by someone inverse.
Mysterious Stranger enters the machine AFTER JDW and co. fail the Opera House.
MS reverses through to the point when JDW un-dies, shoots the killer, MS drops his gun somewhere handy, and then MS continues reversing and enters the machine again.
MS then returns to the opera house (in forward-time), stops his reversed-self from moonwalking all backwards n shit and shoves the clone in a closet, (or kills him, or talks to him and tells him to fuck off or this was all apart of his plan and he knows to walk away with some sort of preset signal, like the gun being gone when he returns for it). Forward-MS gets his dropped inverted-gun and then waits/syncs up with the moment it is fired and saves JDW. No bullet evidence for normal folk to inspect (time cops play it by the book), yet no evidence == semi-evidence of fuckery i.e. inversion but i doubt the bad guys care, they know about inversion already and know they are being chased by the good guys)
There, you have a normal moving MS, and inverted gun + inverted bullet. An alive JDW. Which is what we see in the prologue.
Now, it doesn't have to be the MS who fired the gun. But it does have to be that same gun. And the gun had to have been fired while in reverse.
It could have been JDW as the MS but only if, instead of performing all the steps outlined above, the MS instead simply travels back in time and tips off JDW. Then, JDW goes back, before the siege, then goes forward past the siege without saving himself in normal forward time with forward-gun and bullets, then after the failed siege where his original self dies, he goes back and performs the steps MS did in the original outline. Makes no sense, he ought to have just forward-shot and saved himself.
The MS has the best vantage to pull off the save, with the least amount of use of the machine. JDW isn't the MS.
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I noticed that the explosion in the trailer#2 at the opera house is already much larger than in the Prologue. 
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Nolan will have the simplest explanation needed for this. It won't be a complex answer where multiple assumptions are needed. The bullet was there "ahead of time" because he was destined to shoot that swat guy with a reverse-timed gun. He didn't need to plant bullets ahead of time, the bullet existed there because he wanted to save JDW and shoot the swat guy. If he never shot the swat guy, the bullet would not be there.dragon_phoenix wrote: ↑May 29th, 2020, 8:08 pmBecause there's a chicken and egg problem of how do you get the bullet fired in the first place, and at the exact same spot you need to. I am with you actually. I think those inverted bullets are manufactured such that you can set them up to reverse-shot someone. I doubt that agent is moving backwards in time.
I think determinism will play a subtle theme in this movie, that the time of history ahead of us is already set in stone as the past. You will be unable to change the future if glimpes of it in current time already exist. Every gunshot in that bullet filled wall in the lab will be "caught" in the future.
