Intonestellar wrote: ↑

September 4th, 2020, 8:09 am

Robin wrote: ↑

September 4th, 2020, 8:02 am

Not all doom and gloom though, Tenet can still make a decent amount of cash in the long run. No one knows anything at the moment. Some quick math show this will have to do 450-500 worldwide to be in the black. Might even be a litte less since WB is demaning lager percentages from cinemas. If it crosses the 500 million mark it will make money theatrically, and that would be a massive win for Nolan and WB. Then they can start collecting cash through TV/home media. Remember not all films will be profitable when cinemas open 100% either due to stacked competition.

Some other good news: Both Inception and Interstellar made a lot of money during their re-runs.

If it passes 500m, during a pandemic that would be an amazing feat. It will make profit sooner or later, especially with home video as you mention, but at the end of day, it’s a movie, nice to discuss and predict but some need to chill out. Surely the pandemic proves that stuff like a films box office and critics scores truly don’t matter and not worth getting crazy over.

No one is going crazy here my friend.

Robin wrote: ↑

September 4th, 2020, 8:13 am

Intonestellar wrote: ↑

September 4th, 2020, 8:09 am

Robin wrote: ↑

September 4th, 2020, 8:02 am

Not all doom and gloom though, Tenet can still make a decent amount of cash in the long run. No one knows anything at the moment. Some quick math show this will have to do 450-500 worldwide to be in the black. Might even be a litte less since WB is demaning lager percentages from cinemas. If it crosses the 500 million mark it will make money theatrically, and that would be a massive win for Nolan and WB. Then they can start collecting cash through TV/home media. Remember not all films will be profitable when cinemas open 100% either due to stacked competition.

Some other good news: Both Inception and Interstellar made a lot of money during their re-runs.

If it passes 500m, during a pandemic that would be an amazing feat. It will make profit sooner or later, especially with home video as you mention, but at the end of day, it’s a movie, nice to discuss and predict but some need to chill out. Surely the pandemic proves that stuff like a films box office and critics scores truly don’t matter and not worth getting crazy over.

No one is going crazy here my friend.

Oh I don’t mean you sorry, just a few seem to get very uppity.

Intonestellar wrote: ↑

September 4th, 2020, 8:09 am

Robin wrote: ↑

September 4th, 2020, 8:02 am

Not all doom and gloom though, Tenet can still make a decent amount of cash in the long run. No one knows anything at the moment. Some quick math show this will have to do 450-500 worldwide to be in the black. Might even be a litte less since WB is demaning lager percentages from cinemas. If it crosses the 500 million mark it will make money theatrically, and that would be a massive win for Nolan and WB. Then they can start collecting cash through TV/home media. Remember not all films will be profitable when cinemas open 100% either due to stacked competition.

Some other good news: Both Inception and Interstellar made a lot of money during their re-runs.

If it passes 500m, during a pandemic that would be an amazing feat. It will make profit sooner or later, especially with home video as you mention, but at the end of day, it’s a movie, nice to discuss and predict but some need to chill out. Surely the pandemic proves that stuff like a films box office and critics scores truly don’t matter and not worth getting crazy over.

Yeah, it's funny to see people here doubting what WB and Mr. Nolan have done.

They knew exactly the type of film that they had on their hands: they knew it would be insanely complex, inaccessible, etc. and they chose to confidently release it anyway in the middle of a pandemic.

Critical acclaim would be nice, audience raves would be nice, etc. but at the end of the day they are meaningless.

Remember Dunkirk? Dunkirk was an absolute dream time as a Nolan fan: critical acclaim, insane Metacritic score, insane box office performance for what it was, highest grossing WW2 film, etc.

It hit damn near every beat that you could possibly think of as a Nolan fan, and it made me sooo happy to experience that at the time.

But now, 2-3 years later, I look back and it was all completely meaningless

When I think about Dunkirk now, I don't think about its box office gross, or its Metacritic score, or how many Oscars it got.

No, I think about Farrier standing steadfast in front of his burning Spitfire, Tommy's haunted look, Mr. Dawson nodding in silent approval at his son, etc.

The movie itself is all that matters, and I am reasonably confident that as people rewatch Tenet more and more, that it will grow on them.

Hell, I was sick of the movie after my fourth viewing last week, and now I miss it and am thinking of going back for a fifth!

Intonestellar wrote: ↑

September 4th, 2020, 7:58 am

It’s still a very complex film, those I’ve read on social media who didnt like it, didn’t because they didn’t understand it, same with many media reviews, it’s appears to be the main gripe. No one says that of a Marvel or films like that.

I’ve seen it a few times and don’t fully understand it but admire it.

No superiority complex here thanks. Just happy.

Right, but you're shifting blame from Tenet being too esoteric, confusing and absent of characters to care about to the audience being unwilling to engage with it since it isn't "easy going."

That sounds a lot like saying audiences are too dumb or too lazy to watch something complex. If that's not what you meant, alright, but that clearly wasn't a problem with Inception, Interstellar or Dunkirk.

That's the point. This is probably Nolan's least accessible movie. I'm down with that. I liked it. But it also makes it the wrong movie to reopen cinemas during a pandemic, and the box office will most likely reflect that.


-Vader

Oku wrote: ↑

September 4th, 2020, 8:20 am

Yeah, it's funny to see people here doubting what WB and Mr. Nolan have done.

They knew exactly the type of film that they had on their hands: they knew it would be insanely complex, inaccessible, etc. and they chose to confidently release it anyway in the middle of a pandemic.

Critical acclaim would be nice, audience raves would be nice, etc. but at the end of the day they are meaningless.

They are not meaningless. Tenet was released during this pandemic to save cinemas, and it absolutely needs positive word of mouth to do so. But that's not what happening. I think Nolan underestimated how inaccessible Tenet truly is. It's not just a well made action blockbuster like the latest Mission Impossible that will draw everyone in.

Bingo.

I truly believe Nolan and WB vastly over-estimated the appeal and accessibility of Tenet.


-Vader

Vader182 wrote: ↑

September 4th, 2020, 8:23 am

Intonestellar wrote: ↑

September 4th, 2020, 7:58 am

It’s still a very complex film, those I’ve read on social media who didnt like it, didn’t because they didn’t understand it, same with many media reviews, it’s appears to be the main gripe. No one says that of a Marvel or films like that.

I’ve seen it a few times and don’t fully understand it but admire it.

No superiority complex here thanks. Just happy.

Right, but you're shifting blame from Tenet being too esoteric, confusing and absent of characters to care about to the audience being unwilling to engage with it since it isn't "easy going."

That sounds a lot like saying audiences are too dumb or too lazy to watch something complex. If that's not what you meant, alright, but that clearly wasn't a problem with Inception, Interstellar or Dunkirk.

That's the point. This is probably Nolan's least accessible movie. I'm down with that. I liked it. But it also makes it the wrong movie to reopen cinemas during a pandemic, and the box office will most likely reflect that.


-Vader

I agree with your last paragraph, but not the others.

Inception and Interstellar are filled to the brim with simplified exposition that constantly repeats itself until it's drilled into your head, and they had incredibly simple structures.

Dunkirk didn't need exposition because aside from the triptych structure, there was no sci-fi concepts to explain.

Tenet's on a whole other level: Tenet's the first time I walked out of a movie feeling completely stupid and like I had mental problems because I could not understand anything that first viewing.

Dobson wrote: ↑

September 4th, 2020, 8:31 am

Oku wrote: ↑

September 4th, 2020, 8:20 am

Yeah, it's funny to see people here doubting what WB and Mr. Nolan have done.

They knew exactly the type of film that they had on their hands: they knew it would be insanely complex, inaccessible, etc. and they chose to confidently release it anyway in the middle of a pandemic.

Critical acclaim would be nice, audience raves would be nice, etc. but at the end of the day they are meaningless.

They are not meaningless. Tenet was released during this pandemic to save cinemas, and it absolutely needs positive word of mouth to do so. But that's not what happening. I think Nolan underestimated how inaccessible Tenet truly is. It's not just a well made action blockbuster like the latest Mission Impossible that will draw everyone in.

Yes, they are meaningless, because they mean nothing to the long-term legacy of the movie.

Three years from now, are you going to be sitting there going, "OMG, Tenet was such a good movie because it grossed $500 million! If it had only grossed $200 million, I would hate it, but $500 million, mwah!"

And of course Mission: Impossible, Black Widow, Bond, Wonder Woman would be better crowd-pleasers.

But the fact is that they are only about that $$$ and didn't want to go first, so Tenet sacrificed itself and did.

It's easy to get caught up in the daily grind and miss the big picture; don't miss the forest for the trees.

Dobson wrote: ↑

September 4th, 2020, 8:03 am

I think the problem isn't that the film is difficult or complex, rather it's simply a bit confusing. Especially when you can't understand important exposition due to audio issues. That Nolan seems to be more interested in his concepts instead of the story or characters doesn't help either.

Tenet is difficult (or confusing, same shit in this case) for a popcorn film, the narrative holding it together is bonkers and waaay too demaning on the viewer. It was not a judgment on art or quality, it is what it is. What I wrote is that I want Nolan to make interesting films to talk about, especially in an auteurist context. I'd rather take a Tenet over a new Dark Knight now, but that is my opinion.

Some people here think of Nolan like he's Jean Cocteau, making his abstract art films for WB, but he has always worked in a very commercial arena. Even Following is a blatant mainstream effort. These films can be difficult and ambitious, even if they don't work. In fact the ambitious ones often aren't "good" movies. It annoys me to no end that people automatically read 'difficult' and 'complex' as good art.

Back on topic:
‘Tenet’ Makes Solid Start in China Cinemas, Scores $7.3 Million
https://variety.com/2020/film/asia/tene ... 234759639/
Variety putting a positive spin on this, those user ratings are low compared to Nolan's recent films.

Vader182 wrote: ↑

September 4th, 2020, 8:23 am

Intonestellar wrote: ↑

September 4th, 2020, 7:58 am

It’s still a very complex film, those I’ve read on social media who didnt like it, didn’t because they didn’t understand it, same with many media reviews, it’s appears to be the main gripe. No one says that of a Marvel or films like that.

I’ve seen it a few times and don’t fully understand it but admire it.

No superiority complex here thanks. Just happy.

Right, but you're shifting blame from Tenet being too esoteric, confusing and absent of characters to care about to the audience being unwilling to engage with it since it isn't "easy going."

That sounds a lot like saying audiences are too dumb or too lazy to watch something complex. If that's not what you meant, alright, but that clearly wasn't a problem with Inception, Interstellar or Dunkirk.

That's the point. This is probably Nolan's least accessible movie. I'm down with that. I liked it. But it also makes it the wrong movie to reopen cinemas during a pandemic, and the box office will most likely reflect that.


-Vader

Completely agree with what you said above in the main. Never said audiences are dumb, but the box office proves people just want mindless fun in the main, not saying they’re stupid or lazy but a lot of people seemingly don’t want a science lesson or a complex film.

I’m certainly not saying I’m cleverer than the average film fan.

Agree it’s his least accessible movie and like you I still love it for that.

I agree that WB/Nolan may have over estimated the appeal but as of now box office figures are better than expected, it will always sell because of Nolan’s name.

Years from now we won’t care about any of this and for those that love it, we have yet another great Nolan film and that’s all that matters.