Care to elaborate on this? I agree with you, but me and a friend were just having this conversation the other day.Vader182 wrote: ↑June 4th, 2020, 5:09 pmWeird thread.
The Dark Knight Rises is one of the most cynical blockbusters of all time. It ends with permanent condemnation of our social systems and law enforcement, but that there will be people fighting for change. Sure, that's a hint of hope, but only a glimmer.
His last two movies have been more positive, though.
-Vader
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Nolan should focus on actually making a good film first before trying to earn the respect of today's young people.dragon_phoenix wrote: ↑June 3rd, 2020, 11:45 pmWhat will be suited then? A romantic-comedy? War film?Cilogy wrote: ↑June 3rd, 2020, 11:26 pmI love how this Christopher Nolan ...
(the dude who is known for a body of work that typically has kind of despairing and psychologically disturbing themes that touch on things like existentialism, fear of conspiracy and identity dissociation)
... believes his film is exactly the kind of thing millions of people want to see after a multiple month period of global pandemic, economic disaster, social unrest and depression.
I doubt a sci-fi spy movie would be turn off to people. Nolan's main crowd are relatively young people anyway. I doubt the pandemic will affect the mood for such a movie that much.
Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are about Bruce creating a meta-narrative for the people of Gotham to be inspired by through the "Modern Myth" of Batman.Bacon wrote: ↑June 4th, 2020, 5:44 pmCare to elaborate on this? I agree with you, but me and a friend were just having this conversation the other day.Vader182 wrote: ↑June 4th, 2020, 5:09 pmWeird thread.
The Dark Knight Rises is one of the most cynical blockbusters of all time. It ends with permanent condemnation of our social systems and law enforcement, but that there will be people fighting for change. Sure, that's a hint of hope, but only a glimmer.
His last two movies have been more positive, though.
-Vader
The Dark Knight Rises ends with Blake rejecting man's systems entirely and acting as vigilante, essentially leaving the goal of Bruce's mission not only unfulfilled, but seemingly impossible to achieve.
-Vader
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He certainly has evolved and that’s great. At the same time I think Nolan should keep playing around with those aspects because it makes his stories feel more real maybe. The idea that, despite there being an optimistic view, you still have struggles to go through becomes emotionally engaging because of the complexity of our own experiences after every situation whether it be bad or good. Just like how in interstellar they saved humanity alongside cooper’s connection with Murph and there’s this positive atmosphere around but at the same time there are still conflicts to get through like in the case of Brand thinking she’s alone and Cooper going to her although we are left guessing if he found her or what happened when he found her. I mean, even insomnia has sort of a positive ending with Pacino telling her to not lose her way and him recognizing his mistakes with that but we are left wondering if she told the truth about him or not.Demoph wrote: ↑June 4th, 2020, 3:36 pmHis films have become more and more optimistic. Memento and Following are pretty desperate, the character is never able to understand reality, in Insomnia in the last scene there is a shade of hope, it is possible through ethic to get the better of our biased judgement of reality. TDK is his last very pessimistic film imo. Even if nobody is able to destroy the other boat, they are still able to vote for it, which in a democracy is pretty scary, also Dent's arc, and the idea that a lie is better for justice than the truth.
Inception, TDKR have happy ends, but in each of them, Nolan gives you reason to think that he's not showing you the real end. It even led some people to suggest that Cooper died in the tesseract in Interstellar, and that the ending was a dream, trying once again to find darkness in Nolan's ending. Also, for a film that has such a happy end (humanity survives, find a planet to go to), it is amazing how sad the ending feels (Brand's loneliness, Murph about to die). He mostly plays with the same emotions at the end of Dunkirk (Dunkirk is a victory, but there is still melancholy with the local newspaper and the burning spitfire. Also the music he chose is the one from his father's funeral.)
I think all his endings are moving. And they have been more and more uplifting.
Also in interviewat the beginning of his career, Nolan described himself as a pessimist, and now he says he's an optimist, so he also has changed, and his film shows his own evolution.
For me, that’s something I’ve always loved about his films. That’s my take though.
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I like that take, but it's really not how I feel.Vader182 wrote: ↑June 4th, 2020, 6:00 pmBatman Begins and The Dark Knight are about Bruce creating a meta-narrative for the people of Gotham to be inspired by through the "Modern Myth" of Batman.Bacon wrote: ↑June 4th, 2020, 5:44 pmCare to elaborate on this? I agree with you, but me and a friend were just having this conversation the other day.Vader182 wrote: ↑June 4th, 2020, 5:09 pmWeird thread.
The Dark Knight Rises is one of the most cynical blockbusters of all time. It ends with permanent condemnation of our social systems and law enforcement, but that there will be people fighting for change. Sure, that's a hint of hope, but only a glimmer.
His last two movies have been more positive, though.
-Vader
The Dark Knight Rises ends with Blake rejecting man's systems entirely and acting as vigilante, essentially leaving the goal of Bruce's mission not only unfulfilled, but seemingly impossible to achieve.
-Vader
The editing, music and overall directing of the last two minutes doesn't feel that way to me. Nolan is more joining in on the ideal of the righteous hero than he is being subversive about it. To me it is a great conclusion emotionnally but like most of the rest of the last half-hour, it doesn't push its thematic as far as it could, especially compared with TDK, where the political and ethical themes continue to drive the story in the last act.
TDKR talks a lot about ecology, economy, inequalities, violence, power, revolution, justice... but in the end, the atomic bomb, and the Talia's twist move the story towards a much more classic super-hero ending: hero versus villain, sacrifice, happy ending. A great super-hero film though.
I love TDKR so much, but I don't think it's as deep as it could have been. And I think eventually, even with all its thematic, what dominates is character and story and not thematics.
If Bane is Bruce radicalized inside dangerous ideology, a blunt if cunning instrument for violent change, Blake is also Bruce, an orphan, only attempting to instigate change from inside the system. You can almost track Blake's descent scene by scene, from pro-system to anti-system. Foley's glory-hunting, disinterest in protecting citizens and general incompetence, or Blake's disappointment in the moral complicity of Gordon "getting his hands dirty" outside the boundaries of the law and sowing the seeds of enacting moral change outside the limits of the law.Demoph wrote: ↑June 4th, 2020, 6:53 pmI like that take, but it's really not how I feel.
The editing, music and overall directing of the last two minutes doesn't feel that way to me. Nolan is more joining in on the ideal of the righteous hero than he is being subversive about it. To me it is a great conclusion emotionnally but like most of the rest of the last half-hour, it doesn't push its thematic as far as it could, especially compared with TDK, where the political and ethical themes continue to drive the story in the last act.
TDKR talks a lot about ecology, economy, inequalities, violence, power, revolution, justice... but in the end, the atomic bomb, and the Talia's twist move the story towards a much more classic super-hero ending: hero versus villain, sacrifice, happy ending. A great super-hero film though.
I love TDKR so much, but I don't think it's as deep as it could have been. And I think eventually, even with all its thematic, what dominates is character and story and not thematics.
It's very important also remember TDKR also proves The Joker correct–--the greatest weapon in the film is not an atomic bomb or a couple of tumblers, it's the people of Gotham. They're the ones who ultimately stage the coup against the rich. There's not a particularly deep level of social commentary, I grant you, and the who-what-when-how is murky at best, but it is fair to say there is social critic on all levels of social and governmental systems in the social hierarchy inside Gotham. It's sort of what the whole movie is about, which is why Blake rejecting the systems to work outside them not only fits into the thematic Matrix woven into TDKR, but it's the only possible conclusion of it.
-Vader
Rises is a bit strange in its politics, i see how people may believe it leans on the conservative side, but i think they are wrong, it sort of criticizes the institution of law enforcement, but its empathic with its individuals, but in the end there`s this bit where the wayne manor is turned into a house for socially endangered kids, it becomes sort of the legacy of the wayne family in gotham, its also supportive of the fact that the only real way to bring down crime and poverty is through social justice, and police is just a patch solution, even batman is just a patch solution, and more of a evocative figure.Vader182 wrote: ↑June 4th, 2020, 5:09 pmWeird thread.
The Dark Knight Rises is one of the most cynical blockbusters of all time. It ends with permanent condemnation of our social systems and law enforcement, but that there will be people fighting for change. Sure, that's a hint of hope, but only a glimmer.
His last two movies have been more positive, though.
-Vader
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Has there been a discussion had about Pattinsons character having both an American and English accent in different scenes?
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Yes, I personally I think it's just a slip-up by Pattinson in his acting. He's obviously supposed to be English. I don't think Nolan is particular about accent consistency in his movies anyway. He gives his actor a lot of freedom than most other director.
You're either talking about 'what the hell happened here?' or 'we need to save them here and now' but if you listen closely they both have the English accent.
