The themes of THE DARK KNIGHT RISES

The 2012 superhero epic about Batman's struggle to overcome the terrorist leader Bane, as well as his own inner demons.
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ihsan wrote:
He doesn't want to be healed both physically and mentally. that's why Alfred was so worry.
Yeah, I see, but being crippled man for 8 years! That is overrated! How could he live like that even for life simple requires!

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The collapse of society instigated by Bane only worked because he "started a fire", i.e. social revolution. Nolan condemns both the oppressive aristocratic upper class, as well as the dangerous mob mentality that comes to control Gotham for six months. This thematic focus is shared with one of the primary influences on the film, A Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens, which further aids my argument.

The Dark Knight Rises goes beyond party politics and into the human condition itself- when the fortunate of society get greedy and withhold opportunity from those that aren't--a particularly notable point given both political parties seem to damage the middle class increasingly more every day-- there's absolutely a potential for catastrophic consequences. Batman is Nolan's unrealistic hope that pushes Rises into escapism- in our own society, empowered and capable heroes to fix what we can't don't exist. This is what Christopher Nolan means when he labels his trilogy first and foremost as entertainment (much as David Lean did his own films). However, Nolan hopes to inspire the viewers as Batman inspires Gotham.

It's escapism- but it's dammed smart.

-Vader

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Vader182 wrote:The collapse of society instigated by Bane only worked because he "started a fire", i.e. social revolution. Nolan condemns both the oppressive aristocratic upper class, as well as the dangerous mob mentality that comes to control Gotham for six months. This thematic focus is shared with one of the primary influences on the film, A Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens, which further aids my argument.

The Dark Knight Rises goes beyond party politics and into the human condition itself- when the fortunate of society get greedy and withhold opportunity from those that aren't--a particularly notable point given both political parties seem to damage the middle class increasingly more every day-- there's absolutely a potential for catastrophic consequences. Batman is Nolan's unrealistic hope that pushes Rises into escapism- in our own society, empowered and capable heroes to fix what we can't don't exist. This is what Christopher Nolan means when he labels his trilogy first and foremost as entertainment (much as David Lean did his own films). However, Nolan hopes to inspire the viewers as Batman inspires Gotham.

It's escapism- but it's dammed smart.

-Vader
I agree with you but, I don't think it's escapism. instead I think it's Existentialism.
Batman is only a metaphoric symbol to the people. yes as you said Nolan tried to inspire the people and that is not escapism at all. Batman being fictional-comic character doesn't mean it's escapism. Yes he is -IN OUR SOCIETY UNREALISTIC- as every movie's character is OBJECTIVELY fictional too even the ones who based on real people .. It always has kind of imagination.
what I'm trying to say that Nolan saw that the fictional incorruptible symbol (with life realistic conflicts and fears) can be something hugely inspired and ELEMENTAL. with somehow utterly psychological other's poles (villains) visions . showing that there's no fairy dreams .. but life is unfair and we have to deal with it as much as we can.
IMO, That is a very respectful mind and methods from the man (even If I have another whole vision to the society).

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By escapism I mostly meant that the audience can live vicariously through the citizens of Gotham and feel empowered by a hero we could never have.

-Vader

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Vader182 wrote:By escapism I mostly meant that the audience can live vicariously through the citizens of Gotham and feel empowered by a hero we could never have.

-Vader
A sence given to the audience that superhero movie should have.
Brave New World

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Vadar182,
Nolan condemns both the oppressive aristocratic upper class, as well as the dangerous mob mentality that comes to control Gotham for six months. This thematic focus is shared with one of the primary influences on the film, A Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens, which further aids my argument.
I agree absolutely. That said, let me respectfully disagree with you on this bit:
the key to escaping past demons and achieve ultimate redemption is embracing fear and living through that.... [thus] Nolan makes the bold choice to imply the system's of man are perpetually flawed and will always, on some level, necessitate justice outside of a system, even a mostly good one.
Bruce Wayne "falls" when he embraces vigilantism and violence. He does this out of fear, and the saga is critical of his choice in many ways, not only on the narrative level (where things keep getting worse), but also in terms of the moral and symbolic equivalence Nolan creates between Batman and his enemies. It is surely not accidental that the second film ends with Batman, Alfred and Gordon being "two-faced" or that the third presents us with a masked villain who constructs a batcave of his own right under Wayne Enterprises, even replete with a twin waterfall!

The more Batman adopts the methods of criminals, the more the Gotham "falls", and the more Wayne Enterprises (the "heart" of the city) becomes internally corrupt, entrapped in criminal capitalist webs and subverted into an oppressive rather than liberating organization. By the third film the company which used to build subways for the poor is now supplying military hardware to Bain just as it supplied it to Batman. And the fusion device which could have liberated the city is transformed into an explosive weapon as Wayne literally hands it over to the villains out of fear that the device will be otherwise misused.

So the significance of the leap at the end is not that it shows Bruce channeling his fear in a productive fashion. It shows Bruce overcoming his fear - a fear of "falling" and of death - and thus rising again. This allegorical decision is echoed at the climax of the film when Batman sacrifices himself to save the city. His act of fearless self-sacrifice is a positive moral choice which "kills" Batman in a symbolic bombing of the ocean (water is associated with the subconscious and fear) and leads to the symbolic rebirth of Bruce Wayne. The corrupt police force and revolutionary army have destroyed each other and we close with Gotham facing a "clean slate" as winter transitions into spring and Wayne Manor is restored to a garden playground for children, a visual which brings the saga full circle back to the point before the symbolic expulsion from Eden which began the film.

Anyway... I'm sure I'm missing quite a bit since the film only came out here. But I think it is really quite positive and non-ironic about the possibility of social and individual redemption. Where it is critical and negative is in its implied critique of Western policies w/r/t the war on terror, etc.

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First let me say, awesome thread. Usually the substantial threads are spread out and it takes too long to dig to find them, it was nice to read through this entire thread knowing every post was gonna have a point.

I think the easiest place to start in terms of the theme is the title, rising. All of Nolan's titles are more then they seem at first, and in this case the title refers to Bruce/Batman, John/Robin, Bane and the League's rise, and the city as a whole. The Dark Knight was a double entendre, the concept of a dark night being a metaphor for the darkness that the joker exposed, most specifically on that final night, obviously we know that Batman overcomes the dark night by becoming the dark knight. But the lie is key, That was a dark night in terms of what occurred, but batman and gordon bury it in desperation, it was the only way to not let the joker win. This film picks up with these characters scarred from 8 years of feeling the effects of that night, Gordon and Bruce sacrificing their own humanity to keep that dark night buried. So, when Bane starts the fire and the fire rises, the truth about that dark night comes out and that evil that the regular person was capable of that they tried to bury rises, as gotham falls into martial law with many embracing it. I think that's the most missed meaning behind the title, they tried to bury that dark night and the dark night literally rises, both in the truth being exposed and the concept of what they saw people are capable of that night rising back up.

This entire film, brilliantly is physically layered. This big city seems like all is right but below the city is rotting away until that evil rises. That evil was born, again, underground, in the prison, where it's prisoners are sent to be hidden and buried away. But this casting away of those seen as lower creates an evil that's whole purpose is to see the surface world burn, revenge for dooming them to that pit, they don't want to fix their own pain they want to make those they see responsible feel the same. Notice Bane doesn't kill all the police men, he buries them where they're left to suffer with no way to change what's happening or be part of the world, he's forcing the police to experience his hell. In fact, this is what Bane's mission is as an individual, to rise and then show the bourgeois that casted him away the pain of being buried and hidden. Batman himself has the same geography, Bruce sits in his house, shut off and broken, because he buried batman and thus much of himself under in the batcave. The geographical manifestation of the themes are everywhere.

But where the rises theme really becomes fascinating is with Bruce. Bruce is dead inside, burying his spirit with batman, and it's deeper then just bringing batman back out can fix, his spirit and his soul is still buried in that hell. When he tries to be batman again, he gets destroyed because his main weapon, his deep buried anger and obsession, are completely overwhelmed by someone who is equally as damaged and in pain, someone who doesn't just toil in that underneath hell but actually makes his home in it, this is why Bruce is beaten and it's not a mistake this fight happens underground.

The film then becomes an existential spiritual journey for Bruce. left in a physical hell that is the result of the hell his soul was already in, Bruce thinks he can train his way out but the growth he needs is much deeper. He buried his soul and his spirit and has been walking dead, and thus he has no life to drive him. As we know, Bruce finally rises by embracing fear and thus the will to live again, a spiritual resurrection, beautifully crafted.

The way Bruce and Batman interact is fascinating, as bruce and batman are inextricably one at first, and batman can't rise when bruce is still in hell, only when Bruce recaptured the spirit of why he took on this mission can Batman finally rise. Remember, in the previous films Bruce talks often of an exit plan, so the idea is here is Bruce can only succeed as Batman if he doesn't see himself as one with Batman, but instead is pushed by finding a peace that can allow him to grow past batman and thus his anger. So, as Bruce spiritually rises and returns, he is strong again as batman, and at the exact same time Bruce starts planning his exit, starting to guide Robin, wonderful connection to the previous films, the exit plan is key to the relationship between Bruce and Batman.
What's really so interesting though is the idea that if Bruce didn't rise spiritually Batman the symbol was going to die and fail, when Bruce rises the Batman symbol is back and the mythological image is restored. Bruce's death wish was going to destroy the symbol and thus gotham, as the symbol must be bigger then one person and him dying with it would kill that, him gotham and the bat symbol are all one as are their fates.

So finally the Dark Knight Rises, literally, and also his reputation has risen, as he now is the city's savior again and embraced, manifested by him fighting in the day. And it's in the day where he faces Bane again, and he beats him here, all connecting back. And, as he saves the city, he leaves, metaphorically killing the Bruce Wayne that was one with Batman, so he can start anew, and passing on Batman so the symbol can be bigger then one person. Thus, the final moments are just the perfect exclamation point on the entire rising theme, As Bruce rises above his fate to die with batman, living in europe, the next dark knight rises. Also interesting as has been discussed, They understand that the darkness that lurks below can never be extinguished, it will always find ways to rise again and thus the batman must always be, Batman must forever be risen.
The concept of rising, the secrets an the outcasts literally being below then rising, everything batman, the final shot, the darkness, the prison, all these plot lines revolve around being buried and or rising. It's incredible how thorough the application is.

Another great theme that is heavily manifested is the use of ice and water. The film begins, beautifully, with the batman symbol slowly cracking through ice. By contrast the final image, is flowing water pouring down as the next dark knight rises with Gotham's embrace, just incredible contrast imagery. Batman starts frozen and is alive and fluid again in the end. Of course as Gotham is trapped it is also surrounded by unstable ice, where as when Batman saves the city and thus frees it he does it flying over the clear blue water, another great physical thematic manifestation, the city is stuck metaphorically and literally at first, when that bomb flies over the city is allowed to rebuild and flow naturally again.

I'd say the other big theme is the past and identity scarring us and making us feel trapped or doomed to the life we live, mostly emotional but also physically manifested by each person who has been left for dead in the prison having a scar from their back being a broken, a pretty direct metaphor. Clean slate becomes a huge concept, and cleansing ourselves of our secrets by letting the truth have it's day plays into it all as well. It's in this that Bruce and Selina's relationship is strong even if the screen time didn't do it justice, they're damaged and feel doomed to a life dictated by their past, and they eventually find that clean slate together as catharsis.

Those are the main themes as I can see them, but their are smaller ones too. The cracks in any form of absolute point of view is big, as both law enforcement and the financial sector are shown to have easily manipulated cracks, but social revolution is shown to be equally vulnerable. Nolan seems to be promoting individuality, showing that bad people will always be able to manipulate any mass mentality.

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a word panic ! maybe by joker / bane - gotham needs true hero , a dark knight who rises for the people ! :clap:

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white knight rebirth,forever




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Dark Knight Rises. The original series of Batman were started with the inspiration from The Mark of Zorro where Diego transforms into a powerful Zorro. Diego had to use persona of Zorro when protecting the country because he could not do it as pure Zorro himself. In Korea, there is Gaksital, and using and changing these kinds of forms, there is Batman.

Trend of the early series by Tim Burton was his unique dreamlike distinctive characteristic, and with that, it was a bit darker and different from other heroes like lonely dark heroes. It was also supported as it was a good example of turning shadowed, dark part of humans into virtue. After, 34... let’s forget that. Anyway, what was Nolan trying to say? Why did the director used the title Dark Knight after Batman Begins? Of course it was a dark hero, but Nolan changed the meaning and symbols of Batman itself to his own styles. And I dare to say that what Nolan wanted to say was not about darkness. That was, I think, a light that looks like darkness, a misunderstood knight and a white knight who endured that fate. The catwoman says that there is no light, and does not understand why he goes into danger to save and protect, but the Batman says that he has not given everything yest.


Wayne’s dissipated appearance which came from spending his youth without his parents and facing many crimes in Gotham city hides the his self who studies the new energy and who endlessly supports the orphan. We admire him because he endures his agony, feels pity to those similar to himself, and facing Bane as Batman.

Bruce says he has a hope with Rachel and dreams Gotham city with peace, without crimes, even there is no Batman or no dark hero with a mask on. However, Rachel says that there is no such thing but if there is, she will be with Batman as a friend.
Wayne loved Rachel, but he knew he knew his situations with agony and darkness, so he chose Harvey; and Bruce also admits Harvey and supports him with hope and symbol of light. Harvey was a kind of his successor who can protect Gotham like a guardian or protector. Gordon admits Harvey as well, and decides to face the rival monster Joker, who tries to corrupt Gotham city and Batman. But he was not so easy.

A white knight. Gotham city is wanted to be peaceful, full of love, with bright energy, but the world is not that easy. It is lucky not being a horrible pit when all the cliques and people who fight for their benefits and who are greedy exist in the world. But is that the way the world is? Is it just a predator cage where people kill and step on others to live? Joker only sees that part of the world, goes crazy, tests himself to prove, and ridicules Batman. But look what happened in two ships in Gotham. Corrupted Gotham represents all the cities existing now in the world.


The rich becomes the target of hatred to the poor, and the rich laughs at them. Look at Wayne before looking at Batman. He has a great amount of wealth. What we need to look at is not only the symbol of Batman but also what his dissipated appearance had inside, his research on new energy which is environmentally friendly and not related to the nuclear (It is an extremely dangerous field. This is really studies all over the world in the present, but it is a hot potato that is intervened by many unseen hands and has a lot of checks.), his love towards children and donations. These show that the rich are not just evil and that they have things to do with their wealth. The noble are to give rather than to receive. -Albert Camus-
Batman tried to teach children to catch fish, not just give them, so that they do not be poor again. The police who try to arrest Batman and the adults who balme him... But the children know it by instinct. “Will he really come back?” A loose design of bat that is painted with a white chalk. What does it symbolize? Why do children and we watch with beating hearts when he is just a outloaw, a darkness, or a bat? What does he speak for? The shadows we have as we are excluded, slandered and feud... The suppressed desires and emotions in us.... Maybe Batman shows that those things inside us can turn into something else through symbol and sacrifice, not they just take charge, defy and become crimes. Integration and coexistence... Something heroic noble-mindedness... Through fights with Joker in the second series, Batman takes what he can do as a villain and disappears into a long road in Gotham.


There is no rule, but there should be self-made rules inside. Of course, righteousness and law are rules. But it means that there are no rules that are demanded or dogmatically pressured, not that they are to be violated. Follow your own rules and “don’t be trapped by dogma”-Steve Jobs. Harvey could not be Batman or a hero because he made the rule depend on one coin. Joker did not miss that little gap. Harvey had the cause and desire towards justice, but had weaknesses, and Joker did not miss that. Batman saw the gap by instinct, but it was too late.


Disappeared Batman after retirement, Wayne’s crippled life, Catwoman who came to him when he was hurt because of loss of Rachel... What revived Batman faced after rehabilitation was another successor of Ras’ Al Ghul and Bane who is dark (If it is to choose black or white, it is always white for you in the end. It is your destruction because you met me who choose black without a haste.-Shishio Makoto) and has great power, in one. Batman, who fights against him, was once a hero of darkness who never defeats in one on one fight, but he, who became a new symbole of Batman, failed in a fight with a real dark hero Bane, and gets locked in a unescapable dungeon. Then Bane destroys the city, sinks Gothm into a chaos and a dark pit, and all the cops and protectors get trapped. Did Gotham deserve it? Was it a penalty? The boy who sings the anthem sorrowfully and the people full of the stadium represent us. There is Gotham in that boy’s beautiful voice. However, there is definitely noble-mindedness representing the US which protects it from the evil even though the ground sinks and there is the bad side of capitalism and corruption. But Bane tries to destroy even that.



Bruce was a hero as Dark Knight and Batman. However, white knight Harvey that he tried to protect corrupts in the end, and Wayne plays the villain to protect that symbolism and the hopes of Gotham citizen. The title of the last episode is, after all, Dark Knight Rises; however, what I saw was, I think, White Knight Reverse. In that dark cave, where no one could get out, he realized that he was depending on the rope even though he was not afraid of death at all, so he finally “rises” without the rope and gets out.-I, myself, dropped tears and gave a clap- Setting foot on the last extremity... At that moment, human is not walking on the ground, but is rising and flying the sky, and success at the last great moral discovery.- In the end, the new bat car flies the sky, and returned Batman moves us makes our hearts beat. Then Bane says “That doesn’t make sense” seeing the bat with burning buildings.
That bat is not a bad but a phoenix which is our immortal soul and the mystery of the universe moving lively.. If you have thought a dark knight as a darkness or an outlaw, you have misunderstood it and are totally wrong. You are to be ridiculed. Effort, sacrifice and symbolism that does not yield to misunderstanding or prejudice. What Wayne, who has all the heroic things we think of, is a phoenex which rises from the ashes, totall changing its shadows and negative parts in hopeless moment wihout a rope.



“The cops are hero, rookies who imitates Batman against the evil. We are all heroes” is what Wayne said in the movie. This means an awakening of the citizens and cops through their growths, changes of Gotham and hardship. Do you expect a saint, a redeemer, a dictator or a great king or a great solver to get ride of all the sufferings and agonies? Didn’t Gordon denounce the cops who ran away? Are you going to run away from it or face it?. We all should be heroes. I do not mean to interfere in everything. What is democracy? What does it mean by the public being master of the country? It doe not mean to do as one pleases, but we all should have our senses as masters, through votes and participation, and have the way we should head through positively changing the country. Of course we need the government or the leaders, but we should rather see them as spokesperson, respect them, give opinions with righteous, rational discussions and compromise, not just unconditionally follow them.
Within noble vote and complying with legality, and through civil complaints and social movements and legal, peaceful protests, wielding rights of liberty and happiness (obligation is basics). I think all can, one day, be heroes, masters and redeemers to selves or others, within the borders they belong to, in the coming era. Maybe when the day comes, Batman will be no longer needed.


Batman changes from a dark knight to a while knight after the last hardship. What he could do following the phoenix, it was taking the dangerous nuclear weapon to the sea by himself, alone. That look. That sacrifice..... What did the blank looking children, who foolishly did not move because of customs and orders, see and think on that bridge? The look of the bat painting with a chalk...that white and white bat... The white bat which always came out at the last part of the trailer....that white bat.... That white bat which embroidered with buildings on the posters.... The lines did not come out in the movie, but what Nolan wanted to say was maybe the white knight reverse. Instead of corrupted Harvey, Batman, the dark knight, grew up once more, and it was the light which broke the darkness which was the results of enduring all the attacks, prejudice and misunderstanding, and the trust, belief through sacrifice and fights; and it was the light was a ray of light logos coming from the chaos and the sea. Maybe he was trying to present that...


The cops who changed their thoughts after looking him. The citizens who survived from the cruel destruction. And the children who saw the Batman’s lonely explosion and his look on the sea. The future of Gotham with those people will be different.
The crowd on that bridge must have instantly believed that Gotham will be something different after that explosion, and I dare to trust that hope. Maybe humans think that there is a world where everybody understands one another.



However, the most important thing is to trust-Naruto- like he said, I believe that there will be a day without Batman, without crimes and fights. The idealty always wins... Have people ever dreamt of democracy when it was all absolute monarchy in the past? There are many different kinds of idealities, but if people do not forget the noble-mindedness, sacrifice and public interest; try to change the dark knight into a goodness; and endure misunderstanding, jealousy and prejudice like a phoenix, it ignites the fire in our hearts and rises...... Everyone as a white knight makes the world where children, weak and strong people can live with peace.






Thank you, Nolan, for doing it. I will not forget it.


-white knight rebirth, forever.-

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^^ I dont care if i will be accused of Necroposting. I just want to post this post, to tell you that your words moved me greatly. I now feel like a dumbass for bashing TDKR in the past (not on NF though)... Thank you for making me realizing how much depth Nolan put in this film. I have always thought Nolan failed with dkr, thank you for proving me wrong :clap: :gonf:

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