Oblong_Box wrote:

Mr. Caine wrote: Even with all that exposition loads and loads and loads of moviegoers claimed inception being to hard to follow and confusing.There is no studio in the world who would give a 175 million dollar budget to a crazy exposition free version of inception.
CASE CLOSED MOTHERFUCKER.

What you're saying is...

1. Nolan sold-out to studio interest

2. That it was the studio's choice to keep exposition

Both are incorrect, as it is quite known that Nolan has used exposition to quite an extent in his previous films. It is simply a flaw in his writing ability.

That one could be possible right? ...nolan also respects his audience so he prob. thinks that showing things with zero explanation would be like cheating on smth.

Mr. Caine wrote:

Oblong_Box wrote:
What you're saying is...

1. Nolan sold-out to studio interest

2. That it was the studio's choice to keep exposition

Both are incorrect, as it is quite known that Nolan has used exposition to quite an extent in his previous films. It is simply a flaw in his writing ability.

That one could be possible right? ...nolan also respects his audience so he prob. thinks that showing things with zero explanation would be like cheating on smth.

This does not excuse his clunky exposition.

I wish Nolan did have more subtlety. It is a common criticism that I somewhat agree with. Mainly with Batman Begins and Inception. I think he has used subtlety in Memento and in TDK ( A lot of people don't see it with the latter, but I do at least) but he does often try to spell things out for people too often. I can see how it could annoy people. In Batman Begins (Which I really love) for example the theme is obviously fear... obvious because the word "FEAR" is being thrown at you every ten seconds through out the film. It can get repetitive, to some worse than others. I really hope TDKR doesn't use the worst "RISE" nearly as much as BB used Fear.

ComptonTerry wrote:I wish Nolan did have more subtlety. It is a common criticism that I somewhat agree with. Mainly with Batman Begins and Inception. I think he has used subtlety in Memento and in TDK ( A lot of people don't see it with the latter, but I do at least) but he does often try to spell things out for people too often. I can see how it could annoy people. In Batman Begins (Which I really love) for example the theme is obviously fear... obvious because the word "FEAR" is being thrown at you every ten seconds through out the film. It can get repetitive, to some worse than others. I really hope TDKR doesn't use the worst "RISE" nearly as much as BB used Fear.

I think it's a more common trait in his "blockbuster" movies. I don't know if it's studio recommended or a choice for a different target audience, but we were never spoonfed in Memento, The Prestige, or Following they way we are in some of his bigger productions.

EnzoTheBaker wrote:

ComptonTerry wrote:I wish Nolan did have more subtlety. It is a common criticism that I somewhat agree with. Mainly with Batman Begins and Inception. I think he has used subtlety in Memento and in TDK ( A lot of people don't see it with the latter, but I do at least) but he does often try to spell things out for people too often. I can see how it could annoy people. In Batman Begins (Which I really love) for example the theme is obviously fear... obvious because the word "FEAR" is being thrown at you every ten seconds through out the film. It can get repetitive, to some worse than others. I really hope TDKR doesn't use the worst "RISE" nearly as much as BB used Fear.

I think it's a more common trait in his "blockbuster" movies. I don't know if it's studio recommended or a choice for a different target audience, but we were never spoonfed in Memento, The Prestige, or Following they way we are in some of his bigger productions.

And those are in my opinion his best films...well not Following even though I do love it. But I don't think his use of exposition is a flaw in his writing, or showing a "lack" of skill as someone above suggested. Inception needed the exposition to keep the less intelligent audience up, and to an extent, give the whole audience a starting off point. Is there a little too much? Probably, but not near enough to have it be a problem or have it take away the overall effect of the movie. But still, I love the films where we aren't spoon fed the most.

indiefilmconnor wrote:

EnzoTheBaker wrote:
I think it's a more common trait in his "blockbuster" movies. I don't know if it's studio recommended or a choice for a different target audience, but we were never spoonfed in Memento, The Prestige, or Following they way we are in some of his bigger productions.

And those are in my opinion his best films...well not Following even though I do love it. But I don't think his use of exposition is a flaw in his writing, or showing a "lack" of skill as someone above suggested. Inception needed the exposition to keep the less intelligent audience up, and to an extent, give the whole audience a starting off point. Is there a little too much? Probably, but not near enough to have it be a problem or have it take away the overall effect of the movie. But still, I love the films where we aren't spoon fed the most.

Iagree with the talk about the exposition and one of the reasons I love Following is because of the lack of exposition...and just from the 2 trailers, the teaser and full length, the word Rise is used twice, so I figure they'll use it probably 5-10x during the film. But Nolan definitely should get back to being more subtle and not get so wordy on description, this is one of the reasons I want him to get back to a more intimate style film a la Memento and Following.

Skyab23 wrote:

indiefilmconnor wrote:
And those are in my opinion his best films...well not Following even though I do love it. But I don't think his use of exposition is a flaw in his writing, or showing a "lack" of skill as someone above suggested. Inception needed the exposition to keep the less intelligent audience up, and to an extent, give the whole audience a starting off point. Is there a little too much? Probably, but not near enough to have it be a problem or have it take away the overall effect of the movie. But still, I love the films where we aren't spoon fed the most.

Iagree with the talk about the exposition and one of the reasons I love Following is because of the lack of exposition...and just from the 2 trailers, the teaser and full length, the word Rise is used twice, so I figure they'll use it probably 5-10x during the film. But Nolan definitely should get back to being more subtle and not get so wordy on description, this is one of the reasons I want him to get back to a more intimate style film a la Memento and Following.

I don't think anything could get me more excited than him going back to the low budget, intimate style like that. I have a sinking suspicion that he won't though...

indiefilmconnor wrote:

Skyab23 wrote:
Iagree with the talk about the exposition and one of the reasons I love Following is because of the lack of exposition...and just from the 2 trailers, the teaser and full length, the word Rise is used twice, so I figure they'll use it probably 5-10x during the film. But Nolan definitely should get back to being more subtle and not get so wordy on description, this is one of the reasons I want him to get back to a more intimate style film a la Memento and Following.

I don't think anything could get me more excited than him going back to the low budget, intimate style like that. I have a sinking suspicion that he won't though...

I think he might. He'll have a very loose leash after The Dark Knight Rises comes out, after completing an amazingly successful trilogy, and proving his ability to execute an original idea and still make a ton of money with Inception. He'll have time for a personal project. The funny thing is that I read an interview Chris did after Batman Begins, where he said he probably didn't want to do another big budget, high production value film like that again. A bit different than what actually happened...

EnzoTheBaker wrote:

ComptonTerry wrote:I wish Nolan did have more subtlety. It is a common criticism that I somewhat agree with. Mainly with Batman Begins and Inception. I think he has used subtlety in Memento and in TDK ( A lot of people don't see it with the latter, but I do at least) but he does often try to spell things out for people too often. I can see how it could annoy people. In Batman Begins (Which I really love) for example the theme is obviously fear... obvious because the word "FEAR" is being thrown at you every ten seconds through out the film. It can get repetitive, to some worse than others. I really hope TDKR doesn't use the worst "RISE" nearly as much as BB used Fear.

I think it's a more common trait in his "blockbuster" movies. I don't know if it's studio recommended or a choice for a different target audience, but we were never spoonfed in Memento, The Prestige, or Following they way we are in some of his bigger productions.

I agree except for TDK. TDK had many obvious themes, but at least I saw a lot of subtle themes. Just a quick example, though there is more, the biggest theme people notice in TDK is Chaos, and the word is used a lot, but I actually think escalation is an even bigger theme. We didn't hear the word "Escalation" 100 times though, as compared to "Fear" in BB.

Also I think TDK is about Bruce Wayne being completely lost in Batman, in his "monster", as Alfred said in BB. That wasn't spelled out for us either. I think this is why there is no mentioned of Bruce parents, because in the movie he isn't Bruce... he is just Batman. He doesn't even remember his origin. Even in the scenes where we have Bruce in TDK, he acts more like Batman than Bruce. He is often investigating crime as we saw many times. Very few times in TDK is Batman actually Bruce.
There are other things a could mention about certain subtle things in TDK but I don't have the time right now. I probably will later. Anyways though to sum it up I think Memento, The Prestige, and TDK all have subtlety while BB and Inception have almost non and everything is spelled out for you.

indiefilmconnor wrote:

Skyab23 wrote:
Iagree with the talk about the exposition and one of the reasons I love Following is because of the lack of exposition...and just from the 2 trailers, the teaser and full length, the word Rise is used twice, so I figure they'll use it probably 5-10x during the film. But Nolan definitely should get back to being more subtle and not get so wordy on description, this is one of the reasons I want him to get back to a more intimate style film a la Memento and Following.

I don't think anything could get me more excited than him going back to the low budget, intimate style like that. I have a sinking suspicion that he won't though...

I think he may one day, but I don't expect it any time too soon. Already after TDKR is, as I'm sure we all know, he is working on Man Of Steel... and even though he isn't directing, he is the executive producer and has put his 2 cents into the written story. I honestly think he is more involved in MOS than he claims he is. I just think he doesn't want to take to much of the credit from Snyder... especially since Snyder COULD (and I am not saying will, I don't like him that much but do see potential. He is no McG thats for for sure, or even close to that bad) screw it up, so he don't want his name too heavily involved. I am kinda happy he is involved with Superman, but the fact that he is becoming an executive producer for WB kind of worries me about his future. It could also be a good thing though I guess. WB is one of the worst sell out studio's there is, and he could help change it (doubtful). Personally though, I would love to see him ditch WB soon. Go to somewhere else, or invest in Syncopy becoming something big.