Despero wrote:LOL @ people who say the Lazarus Pits aren't a possibility at this point. If I recall, they're the same individuals who said Mr. Nolan and Co. would never include the "Batwing" or "Bane" in another BatFilm, oh yeah, and if he did they would "walk out of the theater". While I don't believe the Lazarus Pit is set to be featured in this film, I do however believe it's possible and could make for a great thematic conclusion. This is how Mr. Nolan and Co. presented Ra's al Ghul's immortality in Batman Begins:
BRUCE WAYNE I’ve heard the legends...master
warrior, international mercenary,
feared by all the underworld...
some even swear he’s immortal.
HENRI DUCARD (smiles)
Ra’s Al Ghul uses theatricality and
deception as powerful weapons.
Who's to say Bane and/or Talia [?] can't do the same with the Lazarus Pits. Bane, by definition, means: something that causes death or destruction. Death seemingly plays a huge role in this film. What if Bane/Talia offers Bruce the chance to get back those who he have lost, which happens to be practically everyone he ever loved. Resurrection. Driven to desperation, despite no scientific backing, he accepts. In reality, it's just a pool of water. Mr. Oldman spoke of Bruce learning something about himself at the end of this. Death and Resurrection are fitting themes for the "epic conclusion".
Damn straight.
Also, to the OP's question.... I didn't know the Ducard/Ra's issue was dubious.... I thought it was very clear that Ducard = Ra's. In the comics they are different characters, but Nolan combined them.
Regarding Lazerus Pit's, I think they'll be part of the "myth" of Ra's Al Ghul, but like Despero said, mere pools of water offering false promises... like one of those Indian guru faith healers
I'd love a scene in which Bane goes into the pit because the League of Shadows say he must, but he makes a big point of it being bullshit and forms his own League of Assassins militia that does away with the mystical ideas of the past.
It could be a mirror of how Bruce refused to kill for the League and left to make his own mission. Bane leaves the League because he wants to get shit done quicker and more brutally.
They "killed" and "unkilled" Gordon in The Dark Knight--even showed Gordon's "dead" body on the ground and had people deliver the bad news to his family. If you would have told me that would be done before I saw TDK, I would have thought it would be cheesy as hell. They never showed Liam Neeson's Ra's al Ghul dead in Batman Begins. Audiences know if you don't see a dead body, don't necessarily presume they are dead. The Batman Begins on-disc special features called the Lazarus Pits a chemical fountain of youth.
But I am presuming Ra's is dead anyway since I can't figure a good way to introduce him as still alive in TDKR with all the new characters and plot being introduced.
In short, Josh Pence and Liam Neeson as Ra's will be for Talia and/or Bane flashbacks. Read Batman: Birth of the Demon by Dennis O'Neil for the origin story of Ra's al Ghul...young Ra's al Ghul was originally was a physician whose beloved wife Sora (not Talia's mom) was choked to death by a young prince that Ra's was trying to heal using the Lazarus Pit. He and his men later laid waste the entire city of the sultan and the prince...but young Ra's said none of that would return Sora to him.
Son of the Demon has an alternate story of how Talia's mother died (pushed into the Lazarus Pit) than Birth of the Demon, where her mother died from drugs.
Last edited by MagnarTheGreat on August 27th, 2011, 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ra's is just a name like Cezar was. It's passed down. And only the LOS knows this. That takes care of why Ra's seems to be immortal like in the comics. Simple as that. No need for the pit.
I have no idea what that pit is but I'm 100% positive it's not the lazarus pit. It could be tons of different things. Nolan kinda likes to fuck with us.
edit well I'm not 100% sure cuz I don't have the script but I'm 99% sure
Despero wrote: What if Bane/Talia offers Bruce the chance to get back those who he have lost, which happens to be practically everyone he ever loved. Resurrection. Driven to desperation, despite no scientific backing, he accepts. In reality, it's just a pool of water.
Despero wrote: What if Bane/Talia offers Bruce the chance to get back those who he have lost, which happens to be practically everyone he ever loved. Resurrection. Driven to desperation, despite no scientific backing, he accepts. In reality, it's just a pool of water.
Actually, you know what, you're exactly right. It would make more sense for him to deny. He's moved on from grieving by then.
Maybe Bruce/Batman will use the pit allow himself to heal after getting shot, stabbed or whatever serious injury he make get while trying to save the city his whole life. He will have to create a pit in the batcave so he will can have easy access to it. I think the pit will have something to do with ra's return in this movie.
