Can Bane really top the Joker ?

The 2012 superhero epic about Batman's struggle to overcome the terrorist leader Bane, as well as his own inner demons.
Posts: 443
Joined: August 2010
Viral114 wrote:
talli wrote:

research? lol...he created it from his imagination...i guess if you consider that research, you can call it that
you cannot spontaneously create something you have never experienced..
i am sure some amount of research has to go into studying specific contextual cues that would evoke a certain response in an
imaginary circumstance within an imaginary character..
Well, imagine you're designing a building and you consciously create each aspect. But sometimes it feels like it's creating itself. Like you're discovering it. Genuine inspiration. :D

Posts: 264
Joined: February 2011
RIFA wrote:
You're right... But I don't think Ledger did that at all... Anthony Hopkins for SOTL did it because he needed that research you talk about. his character was different... he had a medical mental issue so he did some research to discover the depths of a sick mind...

In Ledger's case that wasn't necessary. I think he simply literally played with his mind... He visioned a walk, a sense of desperate calm, a different talk, he basically played with his "skills" like a painter plays with his brushes... He made a character from pure imagination because his character didn't require any research... You can't diagnose the Joker... he's too many things in one package therefore you simply need to let yourself into some sort of madness... and accept it... embrace it as part of you. That's what Ledger did...
our imaginations are limited to our experiences..
saying that Ledger created the entire character out of pure imagination is implying that Ledger was already equipped with
all the traits and idiosyncrasies that were inherent within the joker character.. i don't believe that to be the case..
in my opinion in an artist's work there are 2 major breakthroughs.. one is discovery.. the other is improvisation

while one can easily confuse discovery with spontaneous creation, the facts to the artist himself are clear..
he/she needs a canvas to paint on.. and a certain amount of knowledge about the type of canvas, brush, and paint that the artist uses is compulsory to create an honest depiction.

Posts: 264
Joined: February 2011
JimmyFraska wrote: Well, imagine you're designing a building and you consciously create each aspect. But sometimes it feels like it's creating itself. Like you're discovering it. Genuine inspiration. :D
:lol:

here is an interesting question:
can you dream or imagine a face/voice that isn't a direct hybrid or imitation of faces or voices you have already seen/heard or experienced?

in my opinion you can.. but not intensionally..
there are no exact replicas and a certain (minute) amount of error will yield a previously unexplored repertoire
that in turn will yield creation

and ultimately knowledge and experience

User avatar
Posts: 13944
Joined: June 2009
Location: La La Land
Of course the character was formed by Ledger's own experiences as a person. In that way he didn't just "come up" with the character. But that doesn't mean he researched psychopaths or whatever. In fact, he didn't. He said that when Chris offered him the part he knew immediately how he wanted to play the character and then he fine tuned the character before filming. He didn't go down the the library and look up books about psycho's. The only research Heath did was read a couple of the graphic novels to familiarize himself with the character.

He came up with the characterizations himself with the guidance of the script and the knowledge of the Joker in a couple of the more famous Batman graphic novels.

User avatar
Posts: 21411
Joined: June 2010
Location: All-Hail Master Virgo, Censor of NolanFans
Crazy Eight wrote:Of course the character was formed by Ledger's own experiences as a person. In that way he didn't just "come up" with the character. But that doesn't mean he researched psychopaths or whatever. In fact, he didn't. He said that when Chris offered him the part he knew immediately how he wanted to play the character and then he fine tuned the character before filming. He didn't go down the the library and look up books about psycho's. The only research Heath did was read a couple of the graphic novels to familiarize himself with the character.

He came up with the characterizations himself with the guidance of the script and the knowledge of the Joker in a couple of the more famous Batman graphic novels.
+1

like I said... the Joker is a very different character than Hannibal Lector for example. In Hannibal's case you need to do some research. That's why Anthony stayed in a mental hospital and talked with psychos and individuals with different sorts of mental issues... He needed to familiarize himself with the emotional and intellectual state of those people... He needed to see the details because his role was strict. The Joker is a libertine character... it could have tens of different interpretations and all good...

Posts: 15900
Joined: June 2009
Viral114 wrote:
RIFA wrote:
You're right... But I don't think Ledger did that at all... Anthony Hopkins for SOTL did it because he needed that research you talk about. his character was different... he had a medical mental issue so he did some research to discover the depths of a sick mind...

In Ledger's case that wasn't necessary. I think he simply literally played with his mind... He visioned a walk, a sense of desperate calm, a different talk, he basically played with his "skills" like a painter plays with his brushes... He made a character from pure imagination because his character didn't require any research... You can't diagnose the Joker... he's too many things in one package therefore you simply need to let yourself into some sort of madness... and accept it... embrace it as part of you. That's what Ledger did...
our imaginations are limited to our experiences..
saying that Ledger created the entire character out of pure imagination is implying that Ledger was already equipped with
all the traits and idiosyncrasies that were inherent within the joker character.. i don't believe that to be the case..
in my opinion in an artist's work there are 2 major breakthroughs.. one is discovery.. the other is improvisation

while one can easily confuse discovery with spontaneous creation, the facts to the artist himself are clear..
he/she needs a canvas to paint on.. and a certain amount of knowledge about the type of canvas, brush, and paint that the artist uses is compulsory to create an honest depiction.
your imagination is definitely not limited. only a fool would say that. how do we create technology that hasnt existed? how do actors play characters that havent existed?

ledger did indeed create the character from his imagination. Ledger has talked about the way he prepares roles. He reads the script like 200 times, meditates/imagines the character, and then incorporates those traits through his body...incorporating those physical characteristics creates the sensations and qualities that the character has. Remember Nolan said that Heath would call him and tell him things he couldnt even comprehend, like how the joker should talk like a ventriloquist dummy. Complex did an interview with Heath where he said, it wasnt about feeling evil it was about creating the illusion of it....he said he imagined constantly having bloody raw meat in his mouth and thats how he made his eyes look "evil"..which also resulted in him nibbling on his own gums.

its all imagination. The more actors realize that their imagination is the most powerful tool, and that real world research is limited in comparison, the more unique performances we will see.

Posts: 125
Joined: March 2011
What Viral114 is trying to say
- A collection of experiences
He means that The Joker's character was created from lots of small details acquired from other sources and then put together to form a new personality. Like all other 'new' inventions/creations, he used details from other people and even random random events in his life that defined his portrayal of the Joker. Every word that everyone types in posts on this board comes from experiences they've had in their lives, whether typing incidents or just events, (putting words that people have used before in different orders and with different meanings) and our minds do this so well that we don't even know it's happening. As for how do we create technology that hasn't existed, we have gained knowledge from past generations. For instance, the invention of the battery - The ability to create a battery has always been there, it's only when scientists use different compounds and elements that are already known by other scientists and put them in a certain order or mix some together that haven't been mixed together before that they 'create' the invention. Sorry if I seem to go off point, It was just easier to explain like that.

Posts: 264
Joined: February 2011
LomDodge wrote:What Viral114 is trying to say
- A collection of experiences
He means that The Joker's character was created from lots of small details acquired from other sources and then put together to form a new personality. Like all other 'new' inventions/creations, he used details from other people and even random random events in his life that defined his portrayal of the Joker. Every word that everyone types in posts on this board comes from experiences they've had in their lives, whether typing incidents or just events, (putting words that people have used before in different orders and with different meanings) and our minds do this so well that we don't even know it's happening. As for how do we create technology that hasn't existed, we have gained knowledge from past generations. For instance, the invention of the battery - The ability to create a battery has always been there, it's only when scientists use different compounds and elements that are already known by other scientists and put them in a certain order or mix some together that haven't been mixed together before that they 'create' the invention. Sorry if I seem to go off point, It was just easier to explain like that.
:thumbup:

Posts: 264
Joined: February 2011
talli wrote: your imagination is definitely not limited. only a fool would say that. how do we create technology that hasnt existed? how do actors play characters that havent existed?
everyone has unique experiences, hence we have diversity of thought..
if i was never exposed to the English language i doubt i'd imagine myself speaking "English"..
the creation of new technology is a resultant of natural progression.. particular states of nature render scientific discovery probable or favorable.. just like a particular sequence of nucleotides yields a probable/favorable phenotype..
if there is anything other than our direct experiences that is incorporated into our imaginations it would be error.
(i digress)
talli wrote:ledger did indeed create the character from his imagination. Ledger has talked about the way he prepares roles. He reads the script like 200 times, meditates/imagines the character, and then incorporates those traits through his body...incorporating those physical characteristics creates the sensations and qualities that the character has. Remember Nolan said that Heath would call him and tell him things he couldnt even comprehend, like how the joker should talk like a ventriloquist dummy. Complex did an interview with Heath where he said, it wasnt about feeling evil it was about creating the illusion of it....he said he imagined constantly having bloody raw meat in his mouth and thats how he made his eyes look "evil"..which also resulted in him nibbling on his own gums.

its all imagination. The more actors realize that their imagination is the most powerful tool, and that real world research is limited in comparison, the more unique performances we will see.
subjectively interpreting and then attributing certain traits and archetypes to a character is an artist's way of research..
that is why improvisation is so essential.. if a sequence of actions contributes to the integrity of the character as a whole it will be incorporated into the act..
a completely agree.. imagination is a very essential tool but what actually leads to the infinite potential of our imaginations is our capacity to experience.. research in the artistic sense does not mean replicating a number of steps and methods by extensively studying other people's formulas or their interpretations..

Post Reply