No, it will end with Dr. Crane trying to make him remember that he shot his wife after she drowned their three children.bruce_angier wrote:Come on.Don't you know Bruce's real story?
Bruce Wayne is a drug addict and Batman is part of his hallucinations.Dr.Crane is his psychiatrist whom Bruce imagines as Supervillain.Also he loathes Harvey Dent who is going to marry Rachel.Joker is his split personality.
So when movie ends we will see Bruce in mental hospital.
[SPOILERS] TDKR Plot Speculation
Isn't this Shutter Islandchee wrote:No, it will end with Dr. Crane trying to make him remember that he shot his wife after she drowned their three children.bruce_angier wrote:Come on.Don't you know Bruce's real story?
Bruce Wayne is a drug addict and Batman is part of his hallucinations.Dr.Crane is his psychiatrist whom Bruce imagines as Supervillain.Also he loathes Harvey Dent who is going to marry Rachel.Joker is his split personality.
So when movie ends we will see Bruce in mental hospital.
which was pretty much like Memento :shh: I've said too much :silent:
Actualli I think is gonna end with this guy coming, wearing a red cape a red shorts, and talking to Batman: "We'd like to talk to you about this group we are creating..."
Then, all of a sudden, the logo: Justice League... Detroit
or something like that..
Then, all of a sudden, the logo: Justice League... Detroit
or something like that..
Batman will reply : Kryptonite gloves... biiiatch. :batface:Ivan wrote:Actualli I think is gonna end with this guy coming, wearing a red cape a red shorts, and talking to Batman: "We'd like to talk to you about this group we are creating..."
Then, all of a sudden, the logo: Justice League... Detroit
or something like that..
I'd rather like him and Ivan meeting.And losing his weight.and going by the name of Trevor Reznik.chee wrote:No, it will end with Dr. Crane trying to make him remember that he shot his wife after she drowned their three children.bruce_angier wrote:Come on.Don't you know Bruce's real story?
Bruce Wayne is a drug addict and Batman is part of his hallucinations.Dr.Crane is his psychiatrist whom Bruce imagines as Supervillain.Also he loathes Harvey Dent who is going to marry Rachel.Joker is his split personality.
So when movie ends we will see Bruce in mental hospital.
gib sigs
sorry but this was my day off and I had a LOT of things on my geeky mind AND this is a three parter
so here... we... GO
*btw I know there are hardcore Batman fans but I just felt like I needed to explain for those who want to be invested in the character even more and those who haven't read comics but wished to start.
BATMAN BEGINS
Starting off with Begins' Chris and company acknowledged that there were a couple of stories that influenced the plot and praised the character's near 70 year history in the comics. With the mob established and a near poverty ridden Gotham it's obvious the main points were lifted from the modern age, which to those who aren't nose deep in the comics, is when DC essentially rebooted the franchise and pretty much the entire DC universe in the huge event called Crisis on Infinite Earths. This event in 1985 made way for characters to split from their history from the golden/silver ages to the modern era thus the Batman from 1939-1984 are now known as the Batmen of Earth 1 and Earth 2.
I'll only detail Batman's history and arc as he is the character of question.
So with the new era upon us DC asked Frank Miller to reboot Batman's origins in detail in the famous and fantastic Year One' story which ran from 1986-1987. This is the starting point for Batman's history in the modern age and is pretty much the definitive origin for the character.. now, we know that Chris Nolan said this was a major factor in plotting Begins' and he wasn't lying. There are many elements from Year One that can be seen in Begins.
Some examples from Year One that you may recognize
Notables during "Year One": The debuts of Carmine Falcone, Sal Maroni, Harvey Dent, Catwoman/Selina Kyle, corrupt officials Det. Flass and Commissioner Gillian Loeb. Batman debuts at age 25 and establishes a partnership with Jim Gordon.
if you bought the DVD deluxe set then you probably got a copy of The Man who Falls' which is the short origin story that is set before Year One but in real time released later. It still has the elements that were in Begins' such as Bruce foregoing College to go overseas and travel the world in search of himself, his meeting with Henry Ducard, and his first night out which goes poorly.
Batman and the Monster Men and its sequel Batman and the Mad Monk are great stories set right after the events of Year One and they are fantastic. They set the debut of Hugo Strange and Julie Madison but the importance of these stories are the ever growing mob/crime families like the Falcone's and Maroni's and they're also excellent for setting up the character of Bruce Wayne as he realizes that he can't live a double life and must put on Bruce Wayne as an act to mask his true identity (as Batman which Christian Bale so excellently portrayed in the birthday party scene). These stories also hallmark the tactics that Batman uses in instilling fear in his enemies.
The Dark Knight
Ah... Batman is already established and well known throughout the criminal fraternity. The obvious choice here is the Jeph Loeb/Tim Sale crime epic called "The Long Halloween". This story is important for many things: It creates the partnership of the 'Big 3' with Batman, Gordon, and Harvey Dent making a pact that they will do whatever it takes to rid the city of mobsters who have come to inhabit it, but they promise to do so without breaking boundaries (i.e killing). This poses a problem as there is a serial killer on the loose who is called Holiday, appropriately because he/she kills only on a holiday. It's a great story which parallels exactly what Nolan's Dent goes through on his way to being Two Face where Batman feels his biggest failure is allowing Harvey Dent to cross over to the dark side fully.
It's also important because the story begins highlight the rise of the "freaks" such as the Joker in Gotham ever since Batman's debut which has city officials arguing that they exist because of Batman.
Other works that influenced The Dark Knight
Batman: Journey into the Knight #1-6: Bruce becomes majority stockholder of Wayne Enterprises... and promptly uses the board meetings to catch some quality sleep
The Man who laughs: This is where Joker makes his debut without warning and kills off noted residents left and right while announcing his crimes beforehand(!)
of course I know this is Golden Age comics that I said were essentially part of another world but Chris Nolan definitely dug way back to capture the pure debut of the Joker from 1939 which had Joker dress up as a cop to kill the mayor
Batman the Killing Joke: The big one where Joker makes out to ruin the lives of Batman and Jim Gordon
Batman Confidential #22-23 - "Do you understand these rights?": This is the story where it shows the true power of manipulation The Joker has in terms of having people do his bidding and turning good people into desperate ones who do bad things.
Batman Gothic: A great story by Grant Morrison that shows the fine crime solving detective aspect of the Dark Knight and shows his prowess as to finding clues to unravel a supernatural mystery.
Legends of the Dark Knight #21-23 - "Faith": The Bat-Men, a vigilante gang influenced by Batman's brand of justice, become increasingly more radical and violent. Batman is forced to publicly shut down the group after its leader executes a drug dealer.
Dark Victory: The official follow-up to "The Long Halloween". It's an epic and lengthy tale which begins in August and includes a newly appointed Commissioner Gordon, a newly appointed D.A. Porter, an escaped Two-Face, the death of Det. Flass, a host of rogues, and yes, the comic book debut of Chief O'Hara. However... this is the story that has Dick Grayson making his debut and shortly after training becomes Batman's partner Robin.
I'll be back shortly after eating to discuss where Batman 3 can go from here when it comes to drawing inspiration from the comics as Nolan sees fit.
so here... we... GO
*btw I know there are hardcore Batman fans but I just felt like I needed to explain for those who want to be invested in the character even more and those who haven't read comics but wished to start.
BATMAN BEGINS
Starting off with Begins' Chris and company acknowledged that there were a couple of stories that influenced the plot and praised the character's near 70 year history in the comics. With the mob established and a near poverty ridden Gotham it's obvious the main points were lifted from the modern age, which to those who aren't nose deep in the comics, is when DC essentially rebooted the franchise and pretty much the entire DC universe in the huge event called Crisis on Infinite Earths. This event in 1985 made way for characters to split from their history from the golden/silver ages to the modern era thus the Batman from 1939-1984 are now known as the Batmen of Earth 1 and Earth 2.
I'll only detail Batman's history and arc as he is the character of question.
So with the new era upon us DC asked Frank Miller to reboot Batman's origins in detail in the famous and fantastic Year One' story which ran from 1986-1987. This is the starting point for Batman's history in the modern age and is pretty much the definitive origin for the character.. now, we know that Chris Nolan said this was a major factor in plotting Begins' and he wasn't lying. There are many elements from Year One that can be seen in Begins.
Some examples from Year One that you may recognize
Notables during "Year One": The debuts of Carmine Falcone, Sal Maroni, Harvey Dent, Catwoman/Selina Kyle, corrupt officials Det. Flass and Commissioner Gillian Loeb. Batman debuts at age 25 and establishes a partnership with Jim Gordon.
if you bought the DVD deluxe set then you probably got a copy of The Man who Falls' which is the short origin story that is set before Year One but in real time released later. It still has the elements that were in Begins' such as Bruce foregoing College to go overseas and travel the world in search of himself, his meeting with Henry Ducard, and his first night out which goes poorly.
Batman and the Monster Men and its sequel Batman and the Mad Monk are great stories set right after the events of Year One and they are fantastic. They set the debut of Hugo Strange and Julie Madison but the importance of these stories are the ever growing mob/crime families like the Falcone's and Maroni's and they're also excellent for setting up the character of Bruce Wayne as he realizes that he can't live a double life and must put on Bruce Wayne as an act to mask his true identity (as Batman which Christian Bale so excellently portrayed in the birthday party scene). These stories also hallmark the tactics that Batman uses in instilling fear in his enemies.
The Dark Knight
Ah... Batman is already established and well known throughout the criminal fraternity. The obvious choice here is the Jeph Loeb/Tim Sale crime epic called "The Long Halloween". This story is important for many things: It creates the partnership of the 'Big 3' with Batman, Gordon, and Harvey Dent making a pact that they will do whatever it takes to rid the city of mobsters who have come to inhabit it, but they promise to do so without breaking boundaries (i.e killing). This poses a problem as there is a serial killer on the loose who is called Holiday, appropriately because he/she kills only on a holiday. It's a great story which parallels exactly what Nolan's Dent goes through on his way to being Two Face where Batman feels his biggest failure is allowing Harvey Dent to cross over to the dark side fully.
It's also important because the story begins highlight the rise of the "freaks" such as the Joker in Gotham ever since Batman's debut which has city officials arguing that they exist because of Batman.
Other works that influenced The Dark Knight
Batman: Journey into the Knight #1-6: Bruce becomes majority stockholder of Wayne Enterprises... and promptly uses the board meetings to catch some quality sleep
The Man who laughs: This is where Joker makes his debut without warning and kills off noted residents left and right while announcing his crimes beforehand(!)
of course I know this is Golden Age comics that I said were essentially part of another world but Chris Nolan definitely dug way back to capture the pure debut of the Joker from 1939 which had Joker dress up as a cop to kill the mayor
Batman the Killing Joke: The big one where Joker makes out to ruin the lives of Batman and Jim Gordon
Batman Confidential #22-23 - "Do you understand these rights?": This is the story where it shows the true power of manipulation The Joker has in terms of having people do his bidding and turning good people into desperate ones who do bad things.
Batman Gothic: A great story by Grant Morrison that shows the fine crime solving detective aspect of the Dark Knight and shows his prowess as to finding clues to unravel a supernatural mystery.
Legends of the Dark Knight #21-23 - "Faith": The Bat-Men, a vigilante gang influenced by Batman's brand of justice, become increasingly more radical and violent. Batman is forced to publicly shut down the group after its leader executes a drug dealer.
Dark Victory: The official follow-up to "The Long Halloween". It's an epic and lengthy tale which begins in August and includes a newly appointed Commissioner Gordon, a newly appointed D.A. Porter, an escaped Two-Face, the death of Det. Flass, a host of rogues, and yes, the comic book debut of Chief O'Hara. However... this is the story that has Dick Grayson making his debut and shortly after training becomes Batman's partner Robin.
I'll be back shortly after eating to discuss where Batman 3 can go from here when it comes to drawing inspiration from the comics as Nolan sees fit.
Posts: 85
Joined:
October 2010
this is cool!
i love the comics so i knew about a lot of these, but when you see them side by side with movie stills it really makes you realize how much nolan rewards fans of the comics by staying true not just to the nature of the characters but also to the imagery and the feel of classic batman stories.
i love the comics so i knew about a lot of these, but when you see them side by side with movie stills it really makes you realize how much nolan rewards fans of the comics by staying true not just to the nature of the characters but also to the imagery and the feel of classic batman stories.
Posts: 85
Joined:
October 2010
also, dark victory and batman: gothic are two of my favourites!
really cool, thanks for the effort, but what did you deduce from all that? I mean for the next movie.
sorry for the slight delay, getting back to the topic at hand
BATMAN 3
So where does Nolan go from here? There are a couple problems that might pose a question to the source of the next film. It worried me right after I saw The Dark Knight when it came out. Nolan and Bale consistently have stated that Robin would not appear in any incarnation of their imagination as this was a set of stories that detailed the early years of Batman. Everything I detailed on the previous post was the pre-Robin stories where The Dark Knight began.
All the important and critically acclaimed stories/storylines in this frame have been lifted to Begins and TDK.
I'll write this down again for reference, these are the pre-Robin early stories. (In order)
The Man who falls - Batman Year One - Batman and the Monster Men - Mad Monk - The Man who laughs - Gothic - Going Sane - Venom - The Long Halloween - Turning Points #1 - Dark Victory
now... with Dark Victory that marks the end of Batman's solo career. The reason this poses a problem is because where Dark Victory ended, so did the Nolan's use for source when it comes to the storyline. The window of opportunity to utilize one is thin.. UNLESS, Nolan forgets about Robin completely and uses the story sources after Bruce adopts Dick Grayson.
These are the major stories that include Dick Grayson-1st Robin/Nightwing and many other Bat family additions (Barbara Gordon-1st Batgirl/Oracle, Jason Todd-2nd Robin/deceased, Tim Drake-3rd Robin/Red Robin, Cassandra Cain-2nd Batgirl, Stephanie Brown-Spoiler/3rd Batgirl, Helena Bertinelli-Huntress)
The last Arkham:
Knightfall - Contagion - Legacy - Cataclysm - No Mans Land - Fugitive - Hush - Broken City - War Games - War Crimes - Under the Hood - Face the Face - Batman & Son - The Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul - Batman R.I.P - Final Crisis - Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne - The Road Home
In this section I'll focus on the potential villains and other characters
Supporting characters
Julie Madison: The first love interest of Bruce Wayne, also the first to know his secret identity.
Harvey Bullock: Detective under Gordon's unit, a gruff cop who has his heart in the right place in terms of justice.
Renee Montoya: Bullock's first partner and now is her own Superhero under the new guise as The Question
Leslie Thompkins: Friend of the Wayne's, a doctor and an often love interest for Alfred. Also the moral compass for Batman ever since she found out his secret.
The Mobster/Mafia underground criminals
*Carmine Falcone: The big boss, taken down by the Batman
Alberto Falcone: Son and also the Holiday killer
Sofia Gigante/Falcone: Daughter and also the Hangman killer
*Salvatore Maroni: Prominent crime boss who battled with Falcone family for control of Gotham underground
Rupert Thorne: Head of the top smuggling gangs
Tony Zucco: Low level thug who is directly responsible for the death of the parents of Dick Grayson
Now here comes the fun parts... also split into two parts, first the villains based on realism
The Villains[/b]
Catwoman: Accomplished jewel-thief with a taste for luxury. She is extremely agile and acrobatically in par with Batman in terms of skill. Also the quintessential illegal love interest for Batman.
The Riddler: Criminal mastermind who has a strange compulsion to challenge Batman by leaving clues to his crimes in the form of riddles and puzzles. Recently, he has seemingly abandoned his criminal lifestyle and has opted to utilize his skills to turn a profit as a freelance investigator.
Talia Al Ghul: daughter of Ra's Al Ghul and also a lover/adversary of Batman
Black Mask: Former businessman who hated both Bruce Wayne and Batman, wore a black mask (hence his alias), and led a vast organization of henchmen dubbed "the False Face Society
Calendar Man: Known for committing crimes that correspond with holidays and significant dates (hence his alias). He often wears costumes to correlate with the date of the designated crime. (*btw imo underrated and very much underused as he is comparable to the character of Hannibal Lector.)
Deadshot: Suicidal assassin who wears a colorful costume in the hopes that someone will shoot him. He is considered the second greatest assassin in the DC Universe, the first being Deathstroke
Dr. Hugo Strange: Psychologist who uses his mastery of chemistry to create a serum that turns his victims into mindless brutes who obey his every command. It has also been implied that the idea for the Scarecrow's "fear-gas" came from Dr. Hugo Strange
Mad Hatter: Inspired by the lunacy of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland to commit crimes
The Penguin/Oswald Cobblepot: Devious crime boss who uses his nightclub, the Iceberg Lounge, as a front for his criminal activities
The Ventriloquist: Small, mild-mannered ventriloquist. His puppet is a gangster named "Scarface." Under the puppet's psychological influence, Wesker becomes a dangerous criminal and crime boss. It has also been implied that the Ventriloquist suffers from dissociative identity disorder
now here are those that are "fantasy based" and have to be altered for Nolan's vision
Bane: Masked villain Bane's immense strength comes from the poison venom. His power and intellect make him one of Batman's most feared adversaries
Clayface: (4 of them, too much info)
Firefly: Orphan who became a pyromaniac and has developed a fireproof suit and flamethrower to further pursue his "hobby."
Killer Croc: has a medical condition that warped his body into a massive crocodile-like form. He possesses super-strength and is immune to toxins
Man Bat: cursed to periodically turn into an animalistic humanoid bat who fights Batman. As a scientist, though, Kirk Langstrom is Batman's ally
Mr. Freeze: scientist whose invention of a freeze-gun went terribly wrong when it accidentally spilled cryogenic chemicals on himself. He now uses frozen weaponry and must wear a refrigerated ice-suit to survive
Poison Ivy: former student of advanced botanical biochemistry, employs plants of all varieties and their derivatives in her crimes. She has the ability to control/manipulate all plant life and is immune to all poisons and toxins
Next Part I'll explore the story and hopefully with the news that's supposedly coming out today in the LA times we'll get some from the man himself.
BATMAN 3
So where does Nolan go from here? There are a couple problems that might pose a question to the source of the next film. It worried me right after I saw The Dark Knight when it came out. Nolan and Bale consistently have stated that Robin would not appear in any incarnation of their imagination as this was a set of stories that detailed the early years of Batman. Everything I detailed on the previous post was the pre-Robin stories where The Dark Knight began.
All the important and critically acclaimed stories/storylines in this frame have been lifted to Begins and TDK.
I'll write this down again for reference, these are the pre-Robin early stories. (In order)
The Man who falls - Batman Year One - Batman and the Monster Men - Mad Monk - The Man who laughs - Gothic - Going Sane - Venom - The Long Halloween - Turning Points #1 - Dark Victory
now... with Dark Victory that marks the end of Batman's solo career. The reason this poses a problem is because where Dark Victory ended, so did the Nolan's use for source when it comes to the storyline. The window of opportunity to utilize one is thin.. UNLESS, Nolan forgets about Robin completely and uses the story sources after Bruce adopts Dick Grayson.
These are the major stories that include Dick Grayson-1st Robin/Nightwing and many other Bat family additions (Barbara Gordon-1st Batgirl/Oracle, Jason Todd-2nd Robin/deceased, Tim Drake-3rd Robin/Red Robin, Cassandra Cain-2nd Batgirl, Stephanie Brown-Spoiler/3rd Batgirl, Helena Bertinelli-Huntress)
The last Arkham:
Knightfall - Contagion - Legacy - Cataclysm - No Mans Land - Fugitive - Hush - Broken City - War Games - War Crimes - Under the Hood - Face the Face - Batman & Son - The Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul - Batman R.I.P - Final Crisis - Batman: The Return of Bruce Wayne - The Road Home
In this section I'll focus on the potential villains and other characters
Supporting characters
Julie Madison: The first love interest of Bruce Wayne, also the first to know his secret identity.
Harvey Bullock: Detective under Gordon's unit, a gruff cop who has his heart in the right place in terms of justice.
Renee Montoya: Bullock's first partner and now is her own Superhero under the new guise as The Question
Leslie Thompkins: Friend of the Wayne's, a doctor and an often love interest for Alfred. Also the moral compass for Batman ever since she found out his secret.
The Mobster/Mafia underground criminals
*Carmine Falcone: The big boss, taken down by the Batman
Alberto Falcone: Son and also the Holiday killer
Sofia Gigante/Falcone: Daughter and also the Hangman killer
*Salvatore Maroni: Prominent crime boss who battled with Falcone family for control of Gotham underground
Rupert Thorne: Head of the top smuggling gangs
Tony Zucco: Low level thug who is directly responsible for the death of the parents of Dick Grayson
Now here comes the fun parts... also split into two parts, first the villains based on realism
The Villains[/b]
Catwoman: Accomplished jewel-thief with a taste for luxury. She is extremely agile and acrobatically in par with Batman in terms of skill. Also the quintessential illegal love interest for Batman.
The Riddler: Criminal mastermind who has a strange compulsion to challenge Batman by leaving clues to his crimes in the form of riddles and puzzles. Recently, he has seemingly abandoned his criminal lifestyle and has opted to utilize his skills to turn a profit as a freelance investigator.
Talia Al Ghul: daughter of Ra's Al Ghul and also a lover/adversary of Batman
Black Mask: Former businessman who hated both Bruce Wayne and Batman, wore a black mask (hence his alias), and led a vast organization of henchmen dubbed "the False Face Society
Calendar Man: Known for committing crimes that correspond with holidays and significant dates (hence his alias). He often wears costumes to correlate with the date of the designated crime. (*btw imo underrated and very much underused as he is comparable to the character of Hannibal Lector.)
Deadshot: Suicidal assassin who wears a colorful costume in the hopes that someone will shoot him. He is considered the second greatest assassin in the DC Universe, the first being Deathstroke
Dr. Hugo Strange: Psychologist who uses his mastery of chemistry to create a serum that turns his victims into mindless brutes who obey his every command. It has also been implied that the idea for the Scarecrow's "fear-gas" came from Dr. Hugo Strange
Mad Hatter: Inspired by the lunacy of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland to commit crimes
The Penguin/Oswald Cobblepot: Devious crime boss who uses his nightclub, the Iceberg Lounge, as a front for his criminal activities
The Ventriloquist: Small, mild-mannered ventriloquist. His puppet is a gangster named "Scarface." Under the puppet's psychological influence, Wesker becomes a dangerous criminal and crime boss. It has also been implied that the Ventriloquist suffers from dissociative identity disorder
now here are those that are "fantasy based" and have to be altered for Nolan's vision
Bane: Masked villain Bane's immense strength comes from the poison venom. His power and intellect make him one of Batman's most feared adversaries
Clayface: (4 of them, too much info)
Firefly: Orphan who became a pyromaniac and has developed a fireproof suit and flamethrower to further pursue his "hobby."
Killer Croc: has a medical condition that warped his body into a massive crocodile-like form. He possesses super-strength and is immune to toxins
Man Bat: cursed to periodically turn into an animalistic humanoid bat who fights Batman. As a scientist, though, Kirk Langstrom is Batman's ally
Mr. Freeze: scientist whose invention of a freeze-gun went terribly wrong when it accidentally spilled cryogenic chemicals on himself. He now uses frozen weaponry and must wear a refrigerated ice-suit to survive
Poison Ivy: former student of advanced botanical biochemistry, employs plants of all varieties and their derivatives in her crimes. She has the ability to control/manipulate all plant life and is immune to all poisons and toxins
Next Part I'll explore the story and hopefully with the news that's supposedly coming out today in the LA times we'll get some from the man himself.
