Golden Age wrote:Exactly. Nolan will treat Selina just like he does all his female characters. Nothing more than a damsel in distress who eventually needs to be saved.dafox wrote: Don't worry Christopher Nolan is directing this film
[SPOILERS] TDKR Plot Speculation
Seems right. But I don't think it's inside information as much as it is an excellent analysis.Batville wrote:to that above me. but this is from a guy on SHH. I wanted to know what you guys thought about this.
It's not specifics about the end that are going to make this a largely greater film than most are expecting; it's really how the entire thing is going to unfold. This story is one that is the culmination of the other two. It's not as if this will be totally independent of BB and TDK the pieces of those puzzle will effect this film.
Here's something I compiled based on the information I know:
You will feel the weight of the past two films very clearly, on top of that the movie ups the ante for everything but mostly emotional involvement.
There's a worry that if they hold this too close to the chest people will feel they're hiding a flaw in the film but overall they want to release things in spurts. There's a lot to be revealed for this film but it's all tied together in a nice little bow. The fear is that if the general audience knows too much they'll unravel, what many on the inside consider to be, a great, thorough and truly "epic" story.
But they're secret for the most part are the characters and how they're being played. There's been little of anyone playing anything, many in the business of TDKR are considering it to be the perfect storm for acting. That every actor has hit his or her stride so well that it elevates the others to a point of grandeur.
The main focus of this thought is Anne Hathaway, whom they plan to market very heavily closer to the film's release. For all intents and purposes she is their Joker. This is not to say the movie will be upstaged by her but that people will more than likely be more enamored with her character as Selina/Catwoman are among "Nolan's greatest written characters".
The circumstance of this film is very bleak, this isn't Return of The Jedi. There won't be many moments of happy levity that leads us to a conclusion. This will be the worst of the scenarios for Gotham out of the three. Things will get to the point where we ought not to look at this as the last film anymore but wonder how they could possibly end this film after doing so much.
It's a creative emotional ride that ups the stakes on violence and fear but also dramatically pulses forward the emotional conflict. Harvey Dent in TDK marks a high point for Batman as we're finally treated to something that isn't going to go away with a simple Batarang or bullet and we're going to see how that plays out in TDKR but on top of that we are being introduced to a series of complicated characters as well.
Selina Kyle is a grey area character who is not on the side of the law but not on the side of what crime is in Gotham either. She's a rogue but has deep commitments to the characters she cares about. She sees this as a weakness but also struggles with the idea that perhaps its what keeps her different than the other criminals.
Bane is a wrecking ball who can not only destroy anything in his path but has the mental capabilities to break down those who stand in front of him mentally. He knows how to humiliate people and force them into the position of adhering to him. It's not as petty as a bribe but actual full fledged brain-washing. At some point people will wonder how they could both survive with Bane but adversely how they'd ever survive without him.
John Blake is our look into Gotham; an emotional rollercoaster of a character, he's swept into the madness in Gotham with the idea that he can and NEEDS to make a change, He trust the institution because it's headed by Gordon but has wary thoughts about Batman and when the chips are down he's not sure what exactly he's supposed to think. On hand is oblivion, on the other hand is a mixed failure. He's our first real look at Gotham, whereas the other two films have shown us how our main characters see Gotham we will be seeing how Gotham views our main characters through Blake. He's courageous, smart if not a little over his head. He's a man who can be trusted to do the right thing but the "right" thing becomes a blurrier and blurrier idea as time presses on.
Even returning characters have added complexities.
Political pressures have turned Mayor Garcia into just another run of the mill Mayor. The city is in "peace time" but they all know that the underbelly of Gotham is seething. While the clean streets are a feat to behold the question how long do you tote the war on Gotham as your success? When does it start to invite more violence?
Gordon, older and a little worn is still the good hearted cop but now he's holding all the chips. He quickly realizes that he's done a lot of Good but with everything in his control it's a lot more trouble than he's realized. He's got a dream for Gotham, one he's always had but has been more compounded with the death of Harvey. He needs to save Gotham because he didn't save Harvey Dent
Adversely Bruce/Batman has somewhat become a recluse, he still works but it feels like his general interest in saving Gotham has dwindled. While that's not true his destroyed life has turned his older years into something he can't quite grasp. He doesn't know what to do, he's in a state of arrested development and everything suffers for it. He wants to save Gotham but then what? What becomes of him? Is he just thrown to the side? He's not in it for congratulations but at the end of this journey what does he actually have? In Indiana Jones Iny is talking to someone and the man says to Jones: "You're at that point where life stops giving you things and starts taking things away" That's where Bruce is except, he can't recall the last time he was given anything.
Rachel is dead, Harvey is dead, His parents are dead, Alfred is aging and feels a guilt towards Bruce's situation that makes Bruce feels guilty. It seems at every corner, every possible outcome is going to result in Bruce losing something. So it becomes: "This is it? when this is all over am I basically...dead?"
Its a complex issued compounded with the fact that whenever he tries to stop Bane, with all their progress against crime it KEEPS coming back worse. Where have he and Gordon failed? 8 years of peace and then the end of days? How long can they keep this dance up? Why can't they find a solution that holds up against time, no a utopia but a hope that Gotham won't be thrown into the void with the chance it won't return?
What is the missing piece to this puzzle?
All of this was said to illustrate that despite what we "know" we don't "know" anything, many of these ideas will have to be seen to understand and the respective performances of the actors are the only thing that can get them across, so finding the balance of clueing us in and keeping us clueless is a fine one
EPIC stuff.ldmanface:
Posts: 140
Joined:
December 2011
True. And that's why I didn't put it in spoiler tags. I thought the most interesting bit was about the advertisement of the film.
They give too much. We may figure out the epic story.
They give too little. People feel they have something to hide.
They give too much. We may figure out the epic story.
They give too little. People feel they have something to hide.
It's a stretch, but it's not unreasonable.
The Kowloon scenario is an interesting one. It would certainly bring it "full circle" to an extent.
It's perhaps a very simplistic view of the film and has more than likely been discussed already, however I felt the need to share it.
It's perhaps a very simplistic view of the film and has more than likely been discussed already, however I felt the need to share it.
Posts: 150
Joined:
May 2011
Same here,this is mostly cause Keaton and Pfeiffer already covered that ground,but Batman/Bane has'nt been done properly.GothamGirl wrote:^Interesting but I hope the focus of the film doesn't fall on Selina or her relationship with Bruce.
Bane is really where the money is at. At least for me.
really liked it, sounds legitBatville wrote:
It's not specifics about the end that are going to make this a largely greater film than most are expecting; it's really how the entire thing is going to unfold. This story is one that is the culmination of the other two. It's not as if this will be totally independent of BB and TDK the pieces of those puzzle will effect this film.
Here's something I compiled based on the information I know:
You will feel the weight of the past two films very clearly, on top of that the movie ups the ante for everything but mostly emotional involvement.
There's a worry that if they hold this too close to the chest people will feel they're hiding a flaw in the film but overall they want to release things in spurts. There's a lot to be revealed for this film but it's all tied together in a nice little bow. The fear is that if the general audience knows too much they'll unravel, what many on the inside consider to be, a great, thorough and truly "epic" story.
But they're secret for the most part are the characters and how they're being played. There's been little of anyone playing anything, many in the business of TDKR are considering it to be the perfect storm for acting. That every actor has hit his or her stride so well that it elevates the others to a point of grandeur.
The main focus of this thought is Anne Hathaway, whom they plan to market very heavily closer to the film's release. For all intents and purposes she is their Joker. This is not to say the movie will be upstaged by her but that people will more than likely be more enamored with her character as Selina/Catwoman are among "Nolan's greatest written characters".
The circumstance of this film is very bleak, this isn't Return of The Jedi. There won't be many moments of happy levity that leads us to a conclusion. This will be the worst of the scenarios for Gotham out of the three. Things will get to the point where we ought not to look at this as the last film anymore but wonder how they could possibly end this film after doing so much.
It's a creative emotional ride that ups the stakes on violence and fear but also dramatically pulses forward the emotional conflict. Harvey Dent in TDK marks a high point for Batman as we're finally treated to something that isn't going to go away with a simple Batarang or bullet and we're going to see how that plays out in TDKR but on top of that we are being introduced to a series of complicated characters as well.
Selina Kyle is a grey area character who is not on the side of the law but not on the side of what crime is in Gotham either. She's a rogue but has deep commitments to the characters she cares about. She sees this as a weakness but also struggles with the idea that perhaps its what keeps her different than the other criminals.
Bane is a wrecking ball who can not only destroy anything in his path but has the mental capabilities to break down those who stand in front of him mentally. He knows how to humiliate people and force them into the position of adhering to him. It's not as petty as a bribe but actual full fledged brain-washing. At some point people will wonder how they could both survive with Bane but adversely how they'd ever survive without him.
John Blake is our look into Gotham; an emotional rollercoaster of a character, he's swept into the madness in Gotham with the idea that he can and NEEDS to make a change, He trust the institution because it's headed by Gordon but has wary thoughts about Batman and when the chips are down he's not sure what exactly he's supposed to think. On hand is oblivion, on the other hand is a mixed failure. He's our first real look at Gotham, whereas the other two films have shown us how our main characters see Gotham we will be seeing how Gotham views our main characters through Blake. He's courageous, smart if not a little over his head. He's a man who can be trusted to do the right thing but the "right" thing becomes a blurrier and blurrier idea as time presses on.
Even returning characters have added complexities.
Political pressures have turned Mayor Garcia into just another run of the mill Mayor. The city is in "peace time" but they all know that the underbelly of Gotham is seething. While the clean streets are a feat to behold the question how long do you tote the war on Gotham as your success? When does it start to invite more violence?
Gordon, older and a little worn is still the good hearted cop but now he's holding all the chips. He quickly realizes that he's done a lot of Good but with everything in his control it's a lot more trouble than he's realized. He's got a dream for Gotham, one he's always had but has been more compounded with the death of Harvey. He needs to save Gotham because he didn't save Harvey Dent
Adversely Bruce/Batman has somewhat become a recluse, he still works but it feels like his general interest in saving Gotham has dwindled. While that's not true his destroyed life has turned his older years into something he can't quite grasp. He doesn't know what to do, he's in a state of arrested development and everything suffers for it. He wants to save Gotham but then what? What becomes of him? Is he just thrown to the side? He's not in it for congratulations but at the end of this journey what does he actually have? In Indiana Jones Iny is talking to someone and the man says to Jones: "You're at that point where life stops giving you things and starts taking things away" That's where Bruce is except, he can't recall the last time he was given anything.
Rachel is dead, Harvey is dead, His parents are dead, Alfred is aging and feels a guilt towards Bruce's situation that makes Bruce feels guilty. It seems at every corner, every possible outcome is going to result in Bruce losing something. So it becomes: "This is it? when this is all over am I basically...dead?"
Its a complex issued compounded with the fact that whenever he tries to stop Bane, with all their progress against crime it KEEPS coming back worse. Where have he and Gordon failed? 8 years of peace and then the end of days? How long can they keep this dance up? Why can't they find a solution that holds up against time, no a utopia but a hope that Gotham won't be thrown into the void with the chance it won't return?
What is the missing piece to this puzzle?
All of this was said to illustrate that despite what we "know" we don't "know" anything, many of these ideas will have to be seen to understand and the respective performances of the actors are the only thing that can get them across, so finding the balance of clueing us in and keeping us clueless is a fine one
EPIC stuff.
Posts: 40
Joined:
December 2011
thedisabledcubicle wrote:It's a stretch, but it's not unreasonable.
Ha ha! OMG that guy's left side burn is almost exactly like JGL's right sideburn. It must be Robin!
Seriously though I don't think it's him.
Posts: 54
Joined:
December 2011
Wrote this in the "final scene" topic, but let's give it a chance here (no one responded there) only more detailed. And here we go...
At the end of BB, Bruce tells Rachel that Batman is only a mask, and Rachel responds that *this* (Bruce) is the mask, and that his true face is the one that criminals now fear (Batman). Throughout TDK we witnessed the thin line between Bruce and Batman fading away. They become the same person. At the end, Bruce takes the fall for Harvey (literally, too) and Batman becomes public's enemy number 1.
Eight years later. Peace time. Batman is nowhere to be found. He isn't needed anymore, Gordon made GCPD an excellent police force and the mob is gone. Gordon knows it's a matter of time until this peace ends. A new threat is rising, the lower class, the 99% if you will, demands its share of the city's wealth. Bruce learns it from a mysterious woman at a party. She's wearing a mask, like everyone there. Except for Miranda Tate which takes her mask off for Bruce, he's the only one not wearing a mask, or is he?
A mysterious man known only as Bane arrives in Gotham city and begins executing his "master plan". He uses the lower classes in order to take control of Gotham. He has a powerful organization behind him, the League of Shadows, run by Talia Al Ghul, the true identity of Wayne Enterprises board member Miranda Tate (this is official by WB). Using her status, she acquires knowledge regarding several products, such as the Tumbler and Batpod, and getting some for her friends at the LOS. That's how they get the camouflaged Tumblers (with some cool upgrades such as cannons) and that's how Selina gets her Batpod. In the midst of this, Gordon gets hurt in some way, probably by Bane. He's in the hospital.
Bruce, having hanged the cowl nearly 8 years ago, visits him, wearing a ski mask, like their first meeting in BB. Gordon knows he's talking to Batman. A guard notices, and he jumps out the window. Again, like their first meeting ended in BB. Batman "doesn't exist anymore", so he tries to resolve the crisis as Bruce Wayne, using his political power and wealth. But things quickly deteriorate and anyone who dares to stand up to Bane, now de-facto leader of Gotham city, gets send away to a far away prison. This is where Bruce realizes that "the Batman has to come back, he must". Being Gotham's favorite son, everyone in that prison recognizes him. They believe he's the only one who can stand up to Bane, even without knowing he is the Dark Knight himself. They come up with a chanting in a foreign language so Bane's guards won't understand. What does it mean? Rise.
Bruce escapes the prison, he climbs up a well, in a clear similarity to the one he fell into as a kid. His father helped him up then, now he has to do it himself. He comes back to Gotham to find it in tatters. He puts on the cowl, He fights Bane. This is roughly at the middle of the film. I'll jump to the very end. After Bruce managed to defeat Bane, the LOS, he even has Selina on his side. But something is missing.
Bane probably discovered his true identity. Realizing there will always be intelligent enemies in Gotham that might do the same (*cough* Riddler *cough*), he decides to kill his real identity. He realizes Rachel was right, his true face is that of Batman. And as long as Gotham needs him, everyone close to Bruce is in danger. Rachel herself died because of that reason. He fakes his own death, having a funeral for Bruce. He continues to exist only as Batman. Just like the ending of the comic book "The Dark Knight Returns".
And he has a companion. :JGLface:
At the end of BB, Bruce tells Rachel that Batman is only a mask, and Rachel responds that *this* (Bruce) is the mask, and that his true face is the one that criminals now fear (Batman). Throughout TDK we witnessed the thin line between Bruce and Batman fading away. They become the same person. At the end, Bruce takes the fall for Harvey (literally, too) and Batman becomes public's enemy number 1.
Eight years later. Peace time. Batman is nowhere to be found. He isn't needed anymore, Gordon made GCPD an excellent police force and the mob is gone. Gordon knows it's a matter of time until this peace ends. A new threat is rising, the lower class, the 99% if you will, demands its share of the city's wealth. Bruce learns it from a mysterious woman at a party. She's wearing a mask, like everyone there. Except for Miranda Tate which takes her mask off for Bruce, he's the only one not wearing a mask, or is he?
A mysterious man known only as Bane arrives in Gotham city and begins executing his "master plan". He uses the lower classes in order to take control of Gotham. He has a powerful organization behind him, the League of Shadows, run by Talia Al Ghul, the true identity of Wayne Enterprises board member Miranda Tate (this is official by WB). Using her status, she acquires knowledge regarding several products, such as the Tumbler and Batpod, and getting some for her friends at the LOS. That's how they get the camouflaged Tumblers (with some cool upgrades such as cannons) and that's how Selina gets her Batpod. In the midst of this, Gordon gets hurt in some way, probably by Bane. He's in the hospital.
Bruce, having hanged the cowl nearly 8 years ago, visits him, wearing a ski mask, like their first meeting in BB. Gordon knows he's talking to Batman. A guard notices, and he jumps out the window. Again, like their first meeting ended in BB. Batman "doesn't exist anymore", so he tries to resolve the crisis as Bruce Wayne, using his political power and wealth. But things quickly deteriorate and anyone who dares to stand up to Bane, now de-facto leader of Gotham city, gets send away to a far away prison. This is where Bruce realizes that "the Batman has to come back, he must". Being Gotham's favorite son, everyone in that prison recognizes him. They believe he's the only one who can stand up to Bane, even without knowing he is the Dark Knight himself. They come up with a chanting in a foreign language so Bane's guards won't understand. What does it mean? Rise.
Bruce escapes the prison, he climbs up a well, in a clear similarity to the one he fell into as a kid. His father helped him up then, now he has to do it himself. He comes back to Gotham to find it in tatters. He puts on the cowl, He fights Bane. This is roughly at the middle of the film. I'll jump to the very end. After Bruce managed to defeat Bane, the LOS, he even has Selina on his side. But something is missing.
Bane probably discovered his true identity. Realizing there will always be intelligent enemies in Gotham that might do the same (*cough* Riddler *cough*), he decides to kill his real identity. He realizes Rachel was right, his true face is that of Batman. And as long as Gotham needs him, everyone close to Bruce is in danger. Rachel herself died because of that reason. He fakes his own death, having a funeral for Bruce. He continues to exist only as Batman. Just like the ending of the comic book "The Dark Knight Returns".
And he has a companion. :JGLface:
The first cap doesn't really look like him...the second, maybe.thedisabledcubicle wrote:It's a stretch, but it's not unreasonable.
