In France everyone laughs at Cottilard's ridiculous death and thinks it ruins the film. I would be curious to have your point of view on this if you are not French.
Does Talia's last scene ruin the film ?
Posts: 1519
Joined:
January 2013
It's bad, and one of a handful of moments in the film where I wonder why Nolan didn't do a couple of more takes to get a better shot, but I wouldn't say it ruins the film...
It definitely leaves a bad taste in my mouth and it's so egregious that it's not a flaw that's easy to overlook. I find TDKR to be a bad movie, certainly entertaining and not without its positives, but that moment is absolutely something that brings it down.
Now that I think of it, the movie has a bunch of silly deaths. What happens to Daggett? I'm guessing Bane twists his neck, but the sound effect is so subtle and he's still screaming quite a bit after it cuts to the assistant's reaction. Foley's death is super anticlimactic and I always hated the way Modine is just lying on the street like he's taking a sweet, little nap. Bane's death is also anticlimactic and "safe". Then obviously the one this thread is about, it's just bad and there's no other way to look at it. I feel like if Miranda Tate stopped talking and just kept her eyes open, it would have been significantly better. The eyes rapidly closing and her head thudding against the chair is just cartoonish.
TDK was PG-13 and really pushed the rating in terms of the maturity and brutality of some moments. It was genuinely dark at points. I always equate TDKR to Nolan's MCU movie. It has a bunch of easter eggs and applause-generated moments that feel a bit forced. And the action/violence feels very dialed down and stake-less. Still a movie I enjoy a lot and is quite immersive on the big screen, but not without some glaring flaws.
Now that I think of it, the movie has a bunch of silly deaths. What happens to Daggett? I'm guessing Bane twists his neck, but the sound effect is so subtle and he's still screaming quite a bit after it cuts to the assistant's reaction. Foley's death is super anticlimactic and I always hated the way Modine is just lying on the street like he's taking a sweet, little nap. Bane's death is also anticlimactic and "safe". Then obviously the one this thread is about, it's just bad and there's no other way to look at it. I feel like if Miranda Tate stopped talking and just kept her eyes open, it would have been significantly better. The eyes rapidly closing and her head thudding against the chair is just cartoonish.
TDK was PG-13 and really pushed the rating in terms of the maturity and brutality of some moments. It was genuinely dark at points. I always equate TDKR to Nolan's MCU movie. It has a bunch of easter eggs and applause-generated moments that feel a bit forced. And the action/violence feels very dialed down and stake-less. Still a movie I enjoy a lot and is quite immersive on the big screen, but not without some glaring flaws.
Posts: 647
Joined:
November 2019
For youDylanHoang wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 6:37 pmIt definitely leaves a bad taste in my mouth and it's so egregious that it's not a flaw that's easy to overlook. I find TDKR to be a bad movie, certainly entertaining and not without its positives, but that moment is absolutely something that brings it down.
Now that I think of it, the movie has a bunch of silly deaths. What happens to Daggett? I'm guessing Bane twists his neck, but the sound effect is so subtle and he's still screaming quite a bit after it cuts to the assistant's reaction. Foley's death is super anticlimactic and I always hated the way Modine is just lying on the street like he's taking a sweet, little nap. Bane's death is also anticlimactic and "safe". Then obviously the one this thread is about, it's just bad and there's no other way to look at it. I feel like if Miranda Tate stopped talking and just kept her eyes open, it would have been significantly better. The eyes rapidly closing and her head thudding against the chair is just cartoonish.
TDK was PG-13 and really pushed the rating in terms of the maturity and brutality of some moments. It was genuinely dark at points. I always equate TDKR to Nolan's MCU movie. It has a bunch of easter eggs and applause-generated moments that feel a bit forced. And the action/violence feels very dialed down and stake-less. Still a movie I enjoy a lot and is quite immersive on the big screen, but not without some glaring flaws.
I'm sure I'm in the minority, especially on a Nolan fan site. But in a movie where Joker impales someone's eye with a pencil and burns half of a man to a crisp AND it's all shown on camera definitely is darker and more brutal than anything in TDKR (save for Bane breaking Batman's back I suppose). The Robin shout-out and Bruce's climb feel very manufactured for fan satisfaction. Again, I like the movie and no one can create scale like Nolan, but I find the movie very flawed. This moment being one of the biggest reasons.Paradoxicalparabola wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 8:38 pmFor youDylanHoang wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 6:37 pmIt definitely leaves a bad taste in my mouth and it's so egregious that it's not a flaw that's easy to overlook. I find TDKR to be a bad movie, certainly entertaining and not without its positives, but that moment is absolutely something that brings it down.
Now that I think of it, the movie has a bunch of silly deaths. What happens to Daggett? I'm guessing Bane twists his neck, but the sound effect is so subtle and he's still screaming quite a bit after it cuts to the assistant's reaction. Foley's death is super anticlimactic and I always hated the way Modine is just lying on the street like he's taking a sweet, little nap. Bane's death is also anticlimactic and "safe". Then obviously the one this thread is about, it's just bad and there's no other way to look at it. I feel like if Miranda Tate stopped talking and just kept her eyes open, it would have been significantly better. The eyes rapidly closing and her head thudding against the chair is just cartoonish.
TDK was PG-13 and really pushed the rating in terms of the maturity and brutality of some moments. It was genuinely dark at points. I always equate TDKR to Nolan's MCU movie. It has a bunch of easter eggs and applause-generated moments that feel a bit forced. And the action/violence feels very dialed down and stake-less. Still a movie I enjoy a lot and is quite immersive on the big screen, but not without some glaring flaws.
![Image](https://imgur.com/vr43ceZ.jpg)
Posts: 286
Joined:
March 2022
Intially I never ever got the issues people had with this moment. I had to look at it closely to understand what people had a problem with and honestly, whilst I'm not gonna say it's a great moment by any means, I think it's just very nitpicky to bring up as any sort of criticism. And if it's gonna be called a flaw, personally I feel like it's minor in comparison to the strength of the finale overall. Like when I think of that ending I remember the last exchanges between Catwoman and Gordon. Or Batman flying off with the bomb. Those moments are the things to focus on and praise/critique. I know Talia Al Ghul dying is important, but it's not THE thing to focus on in that end sequence.
So no, it doesn't "ruin the film" and that's honestly just a really absurd question. Even if it was the absolute worst piece of acting ever put to film, if the rest of the finale is good that should at least salvage it somewhat. Nitpicky criticism like this is not good for judging movies as a whole piece.
So no, it doesn't "ruin the film" and that's honestly just a really absurd question. Even if it was the absolute worst piece of acting ever put to film, if the rest of the finale is good that should at least salvage it somewhat. Nitpicky criticism like this is not good for judging movies as a whole piece.
Posts: 286
Joined:
March 2022
Bruce's climb, no, hell no. That's a major moment that's honestly not too different to Bruce standing up within the bats in Begins. It's maybe somewhat manufactured for audience satisfaction, but so what? And how else are you gonna do a sequence like that? It's got enough genuine character and drama and weight behind it to where I just can't see it as being "manufactured for fan satisfaction" Even something like Ra's Al Ghul appearing has actual meaning and purpose behind it. The Robin shout out is a little downplayed. There's a bit of emphasis on the name but not heavy dramatic emphasis. It's a reveal I've always liked because it beyond being a shout out it lets you know that he was always the Robin to Bale's Batman. It was a cool way to incorporate that character in these films.DylanHoang wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 10:53 pmI'm sure I'm in the minority, especially on a Nolan fan site. But in a movie where Joker impales someone's eye with a pencil and burns half of a man to a crisp AND it's all shown on camera definitely is darker and more brutal than anything in TDKR (save for Bane breaking Batman's back I suppose). The Robin shout-out and Bruce's climb feel very manufactured for fan satisfaction. Again, I like the movie and no one can create scale like Nolan, but I find the movie very flawed. This moment being one of the biggest reasons.Paradoxicalparabola wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 8:38 pmFor youDylanHoang wrote: ↑March 14th, 2023, 6:37 pmIt definitely leaves a bad taste in my mouth and it's so egregious that it's not a flaw that's easy to overlook. I find TDKR to be a bad movie, certainly entertaining and not without its positives, but that moment is absolutely something that brings it down.
Now that I think of it, the movie has a bunch of silly deaths. What happens to Daggett? I'm guessing Bane twists his neck, but the sound effect is so subtle and he's still screaming quite a bit after it cuts to the assistant's reaction. Foley's death is super anticlimactic and I always hated the way Modine is just lying on the street like he's taking a sweet, little nap. Bane's death is also anticlimactic and "safe". Then obviously the one this thread is about, it's just bad and there's no other way to look at it. I feel like if Miranda Tate stopped talking and just kept her eyes open, it would have been significantly better. The eyes rapidly closing and her head thudding against the chair is just cartoonish.
TDK was PG-13 and really pushed the rating in terms of the maturity and brutality of some moments. It was genuinely dark at points. I always equate TDKR to Nolan's MCU movie. It has a bunch of easter eggs and applause-generated moments that feel a bit forced. And the action/violence feels very dialed down and stake-less. Still a movie I enjoy a lot and is quite immersive on the big screen, but not without some glaring flaws.
![]()
Posts: 49
Joined:
January 2020
No.
Just laugh and cringe at it and move on
Just laugh and cringe at it and move on
Posts: 70
Joined:
May 2014
I was at the French premiere at the Grand Rex in Paris (july 21st 2012, time flies... Nolan was supposed to be here but canceled because of the Aurora shooting). I remember distinctly everyone in the theater clapping at every actor name during the credits, except for Marion Cotillard when everyone booed
IMO it doesn't ruin TDKR, mostly because it takes place during the most epic moment of the movie. I remember thinking "wtf" at the death scene, but then forgetting about it as soon as the Gordon / Bruce last dialogue began. I still don't care about it at every rewatch, since it is closely followed by the emotional climax of the movie. That being said, I still don't understand today why Nolan greenlit this. This is clearly his fault and not Marion's. I feel sad that Nolan never worked with her again probably because of that scene and its reception. She was brilliant in Inception.
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
![Facepalm :facepalm:](./images/smilies/icon_facepalm.gif)
IMO it doesn't ruin TDKR, mostly because it takes place during the most epic moment of the movie. I remember thinking "wtf" at the death scene, but then forgetting about it as soon as the Gordon / Bruce last dialogue began. I still don't care about it at every rewatch, since it is closely followed by the emotional climax of the movie. That being said, I still don't understand today why Nolan greenlit this. This is clearly his fault and not Marion's. I feel sad that Nolan never worked with her again probably because of that scene and its reception. She was brilliant in Inception.
Nolan should use monitors on set. I don't get why he doesn't do it.