Why are there shadows going across batman in his last scene

The 2012 superhero epic about Batman's struggle to overcome the terrorist leader Bane, as well as his own inner demons.
Posts: 459
Joined: November 2012
Vader182 wrote:Why Bruce didn't come into the city earlier, I dunno. Maybe he was still planning, maybe he couldn't logistically. Who knows. The point is- his 'plan' as we see it in the film was to get to Bane and find the triggerman/trigger just on the off chance they decide to hit detonate prior to being able to dispose of the bomb in some form. But I mean, think about this. Even if they apprehended the bomb completely perfectly, they didn't have a sprawling chase around the city, or Bats defeated Bane straightaway, he'd still have barely enough time to reconnect it. For that reason, flying it out over the ocean seems most likely to have been his plan all along, especially since, as I said, he lied about the autopilot from the beginning. In fact, he brings up that the autopilot still doesn't work to Fox- reminding both him and the audience. Why else lie?

-Vader
The problem is with what Bruce says to Fox and Selina at different points. Fox says "that bomb goes off in 12 hours" and Bruce goes "unless we can reconnect it to the reactor" - doesn't this affirm that hooking it to the reactor was the main plan of action? Same for when Batman says to Catwoman "we have to force that convoy east to the entrance to the reactor. I need you on the ground. I'll be in the air. Go." This again implies that the plan was to reconnect to the reactor. He didn't say "We have to force that convoy somewhere wide open where I can easily hook up the bomb to my plane and fly it away." Unless I'm missing something, I honestly have no clue and when you think about it, the true intention of the plan to stop the bomb seems very self-contradictory at different points. :crazy:

User avatar
Posts: 19904
Joined: June 2010
Location: The White City
That's why it's called a lie. He was tricking everyone.

-Vader

User avatar
Posts: 26288
Joined: February 2010
Location: Texas
I thought it was clear that reconnecting the core was his primary goal, but the Bat autopilot thing was definitely a backup plan.
If she plays cranium she gives good brainium.

Posts: 459
Joined: November 2012
Vader182 wrote:That's why it's called a lie. He was tricking everyone.

-Vader
So he was lying to Selina when he told her what to do when chasing the convoy via Batpod? :eh:
That's a hell of a risky lie if true.

He seemed pretty honest and out of breath to the point where it definitely did not seem like a lie. Why would he tell her to try to force the vehicles east if he didn't mean it? The whole thing could've seriously backfired.
Cilogy wrote:I thought it was clear that reconnecting the core was his primary goal, but the Bat autopilot thing was definitely a backup plan.
I agree with this.

User avatar
Posts: 19904
Joined: June 2010
Location: The White City
nolangoatdirector wrote:
Vader182 wrote:That's why it's called a lie. He was tricking everyone.

-Vader
So he was lying to Selina when he told her what to do when chasing the convoy via Batpod? :eh:
That's a hell of a risky lie if true.

He seemed pretty honest and out of breath to the point where it definitely did not seem like a lie. Why would he tell her to try to force the vehicles east if he didn't mean it? The whole thing could've seriously backfired.
Yeah... I'm thinking if Batman really did plan to detonate the bomb with the bat all along, he'd have the concentration to ...stick with his cover plan in tense situations. That's kind of all he does as a masked dude anyway. Also, the convoy is still going towards the water, as that's where the reactor had to go. How could this have backfired?

Anyway,
Cilogy wrote:I thought it was clear that reconnecting the core was his primary goal, but the Bat autopilot thing was definitely a backup plan.
Right, maybe. Except, why lie? Why bring it up to Fox unprompted, then lie to everyone at the end? So it was only his backup plan he'd sacrifice himself? If they really did get it to the reactor in time, would he have staged Batman getting blown up some other way? Obviously there could never have been a body. The idea of escaping from Gotham only works if Batman, in the eyes of the city, is definitively killed, which can only really accomplish with an explosion. It also inspires the city and peoples to honor an 'ideal' and standard to inspire people, which is what Bruce set out to do all along. It all fits so perfectly together, I can't help but think this is the definitive version of what happened, or at least, uses all the evidence given in the film for a specific conclusion.


-Vader

User avatar
Posts: 26288
Joined: February 2010
Location: Texas
Vader182 wrote:Right, maybe. Except, why lie? Why bring it up to Fox unprompted, then lie to everyone at the end? So it was only his backup plan he'd sacrifice himself? If they really did get it to the reactor in time, would he have staged Batman getting blown up some other way? Obviously there could never have been a body. The idea of escaping from Gotham only works if Batman, in the eyes of the city, is definitively killed, which can only really accomplish with an explosion. It also inspires the city and peoples to honor an 'ideal' and standard to inspire people, which is what Bruce set out to do all along. It all fits so perfectly together, I can't help but think this is the definitive version of what happened, or at least, uses all the evidence given in the film for a specific conclusion.


-Vader
Then it's entirely possible that using the autopilot was his main plan, and he was intentionally misleading everyone, even during the chase. Fox is telling him to direct the convoy back to the reactor, but Bruce already knows that won't happen, he know he wants to fly the bomb out. He knows the best and only way this ends is if he "sacrifices" himself because he knows what that would mean to Gotham. After all, he's the one who causes the HEMTT to crash, and then jumps at the opportunity to "get it out over the bay". Causing that HEMTT to crash was not an accident. Like you said it's the definitive version of what happened, so I say it was his plan all along.

Follow me?
If she plays cranium she gives good brainium.

Posts: 459
Joined: November 2012
Cilogy wrote:
Vader182 wrote:Right, maybe. Except, why lie? Why bring it up to Fox unprompted, then lie to everyone at the end? So it was only his backup plan he'd sacrifice himself? If they really did get it to the reactor in time, would he have staged Batman getting blown up some other way? Obviously there could never have been a body. The idea of escaping from Gotham only works if Batman, in the eyes of the city, is definitively killed, which can only really accomplish with an explosion. It also inspires the city and peoples to honor an 'ideal' and standard to inspire people, which is what Bruce set out to do all along. It all fits so perfectly together, I can't help but think this is the definitive version of what happened, or at least, uses all the evidence given in the film for a specific conclusion.


-Vader
Then it's entirely possible that using the autopilot was his main plan, and he was intentionally misleading everyone, even during the chase. Fox is telling him to direct the convoy back to the reactor, but Bruce already knows that won't happen, he know he wants to fly the bomb out. He knows the best and only way this ends is if he "sacrifices" himself because he knows what that would mean to Gotham. After all, he's the one who causes the HEMTT to crash, and then jumps at the opportunity to "get it out over the bay". Causing that HEMTT to crash was not an accident. Like you said it's the definitive version of what happened, so I say it was his plan all along.

Follow me?
There's one big problem with this theory, though: to fly the bomb out over the water and have the explosion seen by everyone, Bruce would have purposely had to have waited until seconds before it went off (which ended up happening), but to wait until the last possible second on purpose is way too risky and I find it hard to believe that he would play things that close to the chest with a nuclear bomb. I'm also having a really hard time believing that his train of thought from the get-go was "I wanna fake my death, so I'm gonna lie and play Fox and Selina for fools by not telling my true plan of what to do with a friggin nuclear bomb." I'm sorry but I highly doubt that he would give his closest allies an incorrect plan of action regarding what to do with a goddamn nuke that was threatening to level the city.

Additionally, who says that what he said to Fox ("works fine, even without the autopilot; thanks") was a strategic lie? One could just as easily take it as just a sarcastic diss/quip to criticize Fox for not having fixed it himself. It wasn't necessarily a pre-planned lie to help him fake his death.

User avatar
Posts: 1072
Joined: November 2012
I always saw that as flickering lights from the buildings reflections . Visually it tells us that scene is actually earlier than the audience might think. He ponders , and accepts his faith , and is able to move on with his life instead of some crazy kamikaze bullshit. A life without Batman. He chooses to live.

That's how i always saw it.

When he says goodbye to everyone , i think he means it because he really doesn't know what to expect. It's in that moment that he decides to keep going forward , and embrace a new life.

User avatar
Posts: 6086
Joined: June 2012
Location: Colorado
Lionheart wrote:I always saw that as flickering lights from the buildings reflections . Visually it tells us that scene is actually earlier than the audience might think. He ponders , and accepts his faith , and is able to move on with his life instead of some crazy kamikaze bullshit. A life without Batman. He chooses to live.

That's how i always saw it.

When he says goodbye to everyone , i think he means it because he really doesn't know what to expect. It's in that moment that he decides to keep going forward , and embrace a new life.
This is how I always saw it.

User avatar
Posts: 19904
Joined: June 2010
Location: The White City
nolangoatdirector wrote:
Cilogy wrote: Then it's entirely possible that using the autopilot was his main plan, and he was intentionally misleading everyone, even during the chase. Fox is telling him to direct the convoy back to the reactor, but Bruce already knows that won't happen, he know he wants to fly the bomb out. He knows the best and only way this ends is if he "sacrifices" himself because he knows what that would mean to Gotham. After all, he's the one who causes the HEMTT to crash, and then jumps at the opportunity to "get it out over the bay". Causing that HEMTT to crash was not an accident. Like you said it's the definitive version of what happened, so I say it was his plan all along.

Follow me?
There's one big problem with this theory, though: to fly the bomb out over the water and have the explosion seen by everyone, Bruce would have purposely had to have waited until seconds before it went off (which ended up happening), but to wait until the last possible second on purpose is way too risky and I find it hard to believe that he would play things that close to the chest with a nuclear bomb. I'm also having a really hard time believing that his train of thought from the get-go was "I wanna fake my death, so I'm gonna lie and play Fox and Selina for fools by not telling my true plan of what to do with a friggin nuclear bomb." I'm sorry but I highly doubt that he would give his closest allies an incorrect plan of action regarding what to do with a goddamn nuke that was threatening to level the city.

Additionally, who says that what he said to Fox ("works fine, even without the autopilot; thanks") was a strategic lie? One could just as easily take it as just a sarcastic diss/quip to criticize Fox for not having fixed it himself. It wasn't necessarily a pre-planned lie to help him fake his death.
That's a projection that blatantly rejects evidence given in the film. We have no idea how he did or didn't escape, you can't make assumptions on the function of that without knowing.

-Vader

Post Reply