In the sense that TDKR was much more connected with TDK and had adopted the same level of intensity that movie had. My major gripe with TDKR is how much connected it was with BB. I loved Bane but hated how he was connected to the league of shadows from the first movie. The whole LOS element including Talia shouldn't have been in the movie, Bane should've been a standalone villain like The Joker.

Plus it's not as if BB was seen by many people and revered in the same way as its much superior sequel.

misterlister wrote:Plus it's not as if BB was seen by many people and revered in the same way as its much superior sequel.

So Nolan should have made TDKR based on his previous movies' popularity and not on how he wanted to end his trilogy?

TDKR was as much connected to TDK as it was to BB. I suggest you watch the movie again. It was a mix of BB (League of Shadows, Bane, Talia) as well as a mix of TDK (someone taking Batman's mantle, the secret behind Harvey Dent, and the consequences of the lie). TDKR just connects BB and TDK together.

I think Bane being connected to the LOS is perfect. It adds a logical reason as to why he wants to break Batman; if he wanted to break him just for the sake of it, and just because he's a villain, that'd have been too redundant with the Joker. So yeah, I'm glad Nolan doesn't listen to his fans, otherwise I think TDKR would have been a pretty crappy movie.

SomeFrenchToast wrote:

misterlister wrote:Plus it's not as if BB was seen by many people and revered in the same way as its much superior sequel.

So Nolan should have made TDKR based on his previous movies' popularity and not on how he wanted to end his trilogy?

TDKR was as much connected to TDK as it was to BB. I suggest you watch the movie again. It was a mix of BB (League of Shadows, Bane, Talia) as well as a mix of TDK (someone taking Batman's mantle, the secret behind Harvey Dent, and the consequences of the lie). TDKR just connects BB and TDK together.

I think Bane being connected to the LOS is perfect. It adds a logical reason as to why he wants to break Batman; if he wanted to break him just for the sake of it, and just because he's a villain, that'd have been too redundant with the Joker. So yeah, I'm glad Nolan doesn't listen to his fans, otherwise I think TDKR would have been a pretty crappy movie.

I don't think most people were too pleased with the LOS connection. And also a lot of people hadn't seen BB. Plus the final act felt like a rehash of BB. The film was way too connected to BB and almost ignored TDK. Yeah there was that little bit about Dent at the start but that's about it. It's not a surprise also that many people were disappointed that The Joker wasn't even mention, the character that practically made a billion dollars.

misterlister wrote:

SomeFrenchToast wrote:
So Nolan should have made TDKR based on his previous movies' popularity and not on how he wanted to end his trilogy?

TDKR was as much connected to TDK as it was to BB. I suggest you watch the movie again. It was a mix of BB (League of Shadows, Bane, Talia) as well as a mix of TDK (someone taking Batman's mantle, the secret behind Harvey Dent, and the consequences of the lie). TDKR just connects BB and TDK together.

I think Bane being connected to the LOS is perfect. It adds a logical reason as to why he wants to break Batman; if he wanted to break him just for the sake of it, and just because he's a villain, that'd have been too redundant with the Joker. So yeah, I'm glad Nolan doesn't listen to his fans, otherwise I think TDKR would have been a pretty crappy movie.

I don't think most people were too pleased with the LOS connection. And also a lot of people hadn't seen BB. Plus the final act felt like a rehash of BB. The film was way too connected to BB and almost ignored TDK. Yeah there was that little bit about Dent at the start but that's about it. It's not a surprise also that many people were disappointed that The Joker wasn't even mention, the character that practically made a billion dollars.

You have zero idea hat you're taking about.

misterlister wrote: I don't think most people were too pleased with the LOS connection.

Where had you got that? Correction: YOU weren't pleased with the LOS connection, thus you think most people weren't. Never heard any complaints about it though, even from the harshest critics. You're inventing it.

A bit of Dent at the start and that's it? One more proof that you have no idea what you're talking about, like braked said. What about Bane telling the truth? All the prisoners being freed? The Dent law having its true nature discovered? Nah, clearly, that's not related to TDK at all.

And fuck the people who were disappointed by the Joker's absence. If they can't understand what respect for someone who passed away is, this isn't our problem, nor Nolan's for that matter. Stop sucking people's dick and have your own opinion based on your own views about this movie. Saying "yeah but most people didn't like this or that", who fucking cares?

what think happened was that Nolan watched both TDK and BB and found the first film to be a better movie and there is definitely an argument to be made there because it is much more emotionally engaging and not as clinically distant than its sequel (which i prefer but that's just me). It was connected enough to TDK with the Harvey Dent storyline because it was basically just the hunt for a serial killer, which in the real world does not have societal effects with long-lasting implications and there were definitely aspects from BB that needed to be addressed (the death of ras al Ghul for example) whereas TDK was much more self-contained.

People tend to like self contained stories a lot more then over arching plots, at least from what I experienced. That's one of the main reasons why the Batman graphic novels are the most successful ( and best imo ) Batman stories. I still liked Rises, but a lot of people wanted a more stand alone "another Gotham adventure!" batman film, like TDK, Rises was really more of a giant epilogue to BB and TDK.

I didn't care for Batman Begins and The League of Shadows returning didn't bother me as much as I thought it would, mainly because I absolutely loved what Tom Hardy did with Bane. But with regards to The Joker I agree. This whole 'respecting Ledger's memory' thing I don't get one bit. It would be a better tribute to have a hint or s mention in The Dark Knight Rises that The Joker was still around.

After all The Joker had a massive impact on the story of The Dark Knight. He was by far and away the most magnetic character in it. The 8 year Dent coverup and everything leading up to Bane's arrival was down to The Joker having caused so much chaos in TDK. So yeah, I was kinda bummed that he wasn't referenced at all.

misterlister wrote:I don't think most people were too pleased with the LOS connection. And also a lot of people hadn't seen BB.

The solution is very simple. They should've watched BB. If you haven't seen previous installments of a franchise and you have difficulty understanding all the details you have only yourself to blame.

Master Virgo wrote:

misterlister wrote:I don't think most people were too pleased with the LOS connection. And also a lot of people hadn't seen BB.

The solution is very simple. They should've watched BB. If you haven't seen previous installments of a franchise and you have difficulty understanding all the details you have only yourself to blame.

This whole discussion feels like it stemmed from disappointment over the Joker not being mentioned, which we all knew going in. Also, just because he isn't directly mentioned doesn't mean the consequences of his actions aren't felt there. The entire character of Two Face and what he did (and the subsequent reveal of those actions to the public in TDKR) was a product of the Joker. Besides, we didn't want TDK 2... we wanted a satisfying conclusion to the story of Bruce Wayne. And we got just that.