Nolan Fans

prince0gotham wrote:i told you about the jews and how the iron bars thing is a complex tangent topic

especially since once brought up it's supposed for you to expect an answer and i gave you the answer (the guards theory)

We see no guards over there. You assume they are. I can also assume there weren't really any guards on patrol and that the prisoners would have had time to do it.

Yeah, sometimes "guards" came and left them food and water. Using this credible logic I can also assume that they didn't drop over there daily to leave food and water to the prisoners. Why would they keep them fresh and fed? They would have kept them under a strong regime to weaken their strength to reduce the chances of someone eventually climb the pit. So there would have been at least 2 days where there would be no guard over there. Plenty of time to do it imo.

Well, specifically, I thought "I told you about the jews" sounds hilarious out of context.

Also, my thoughts on the matter are straightforward and lengthy paragraphs are unneeded. It's a logical error in the realism of the film but not in the logic of the film itself, which is what matters. I was none the wiser as to the ease of climbing or potential ways to climb out, and the majority of films of any genre, realistic or not, are loaded with equally (if not more so) 'unrealistic' plot mechanics or devices. Ultimately, they're inconsequential to the meaning and weight of the story itself, so I couldn't care less. It goes back to what I said about a silencer. Guns are crazy loud with them, and the entire plot often hinges on the particular convention of the 'pewpew' softness when they fire. Hell, Inception does too. It's something consistent with film-logic, and because it's a film, that's okay. If that happened in real life it probably meant reality started distorting or something.

-Vader

Vader182 wrote:Well, specifically, I thought "I told you about the jews" sounds hilarious out of context.

Also, my thoughts on the matter are straightforward and lengthy paragraphs are unneeded. It's a logical error in the realism of the film but not in the logic of the film itself, which is what matters. I was none the wiser as to the ease of climbing or potential ways to climb out, and the majority of films of any genre, realistic or not, are loaded with equally (if not more so) 'unrealistic' plot mechanics or devices. Ultimately, they're inconsequential to the meaning and weight of the story itself, so I couldn't care less. It goes back to what I said about a silencer. Guns are crazy loud with them, and the entire plot often hinges on the particular convention of the 'pewpew' softness when they fire. Hell, Inception does too. It's something consistent with film-logic, and because it's a film, that's okay. If that happened in real life it probably meant reality started distorting or something.

-Vader

I would not compare the pit situation with the silencer on guns.


It's not just a logical error like "why there are no waves or why there is no powerful wind after the nuke explodes?" which is so unimportant to the film.

Here you have to deal with a metaphor that is the most important aspect regarding Bruce Wayne's story. The metaphor should be believable. Of course, Bruce still made the jump and went through hell to do it. But realizing that this whole process could have been avoided so easily could diminish it's impact.

RIFA wrote:

prince0gotham wrote:i told you about the jews and how the iron bars thing is a complex tangent topic

especially since once brought up it's supposed for you to expect an answer and i gave you the answer (the guards theory)

We see no guards over there. You assume they are. I can also assume there weren't really any guards on patrol and that the prisoners would have had time to do it.

Yeah, sometimes "guards" came and left them food and water. Using this credible logic I can also assume that they didn't drop over there daily to leave food and water to the prisoners. Why would they keep them fresh and fed? They would have kept them under a strong regime to weaken them to reduce the chances of someone eventually climb the pit. So there would have been at least 2 days where there would be no guard over there. Plenty of time to do it imo.

That was the whole point of my first paragraph of my long post.

- there's no point in guards being in the pitt
- there's only point in guards being up there
- there would be no point in guards being constantly up there if the prisoner population is kept fearful of whatever's up there
- that could be easily achieved (legends are told about that 1 person who made the jump... that's all the prisoner population has, stories about what has happened at one point... what if there was a riot at one point and they actually went to the top only to meet guards up there that pushed them back down into the pitt... that's 1 riot that's enough for generations of prisoners to keep knowing how there's someone up there and making the jump is the only way out)
- whether it's the above or some other way of inducing fear it doesn't matter, since the point is that... it's just so much of a stronger example... prisoner revolution being crippled by fear

That's why the '2 day routine' or whatever you're suggesting is not necessary. The prisoners would know the routine of the food-droppers only and they wouldn't be guessing about any kind of routine of the soldiers by that since they'd have already assumed and believe that there's guards up there constantly (not to mention all that's needed is one guard only anyway since if they ever do the iron bars thing you're suggesting it would still be only one person that climbs first and not several so all it needs is someone to push him back or whatever)...


A lot can be said, my whole point came from what I initially started saying about thousands of jews in camps with 10-20 german soldiers. Technically if it wasn't common knowledge how there wouldn't be much point in them breaking out of those camps alltogether (since they'd find their death sooner or later anyway, I mean it's WWII everywhere so) one would be asking himself why they really wouldn't break out. There's not only that. A lot of them didn't lose hope that they'd get released until it was too late and at that point they were already way too weak to do much of anything. Some of them didn't even believe in the gas showers anyway, you know they thought they just used em to scare em.

Point is that it's a simple thing to suggest (the camp break out and the iron bars thing) but it's not just that one factor. And that's what I actually started with but then deleted it because it already got me to the guard-fear theory that I actually talked about in that post.

If anything, it's more of a plot hole there weren't guards by Bruce when he came out.

-Vader

meh this debate seems pretty pointless. I admit I only have skimmed though. I agree with Vader though bitching about little things is missing the point really.

Vader182 wrote:If anything, it's more of a plot hole there weren't guards by Bruce when he came out.

-Vader

that's what i was saying in the very beginning

if any of the reverse logic suggestions makes sense then it makes sense for that top to not be guarded

not to mention that (having in mind that whatever happens down there they can only climb up one by one) you don't even need guards, you need 1 scout

not to mention that that 1 scout doesn't even need to be right there, he could be anywhere in the vicinity and he could be using fucking binoculars and whenever someone actually goes out - that someone would be in the desert and the scout can just alert guards and they'd get there

so...

Bane doesn't need guards for the pit. The pit itself guards the prisoners. Like he said, "many have died trying" so... maybe that he thinks if someone climbs off of the pit, then he's worth living. Except for Bruce, of course.

SomeFrenchToast wrote:Bane doesn't need guards for the pit. The pit itself guards the prisoners. Like he said, "many have died trying" so... maybe that he thinks if someone climbs off of the pit, then he's worth living. Except for Bruce, of course.

I'd go with this. Bane didn't feel the need, or want, to guard the pit. He had seen . He saw it as a torturous challenge for Bruce. He had already broken his back, so giving him something practically impossible to climb should have been good enough. But the pit , and Bane seems a slave to a worthy champion. Could he really deny someone performing ? In a strange way, wouldn't they be worthy of his respect?

Of course, yeah, in reality, you'd have another prison camp on the surface, and someone would just shoot Bruce and throw his body down. But whatever. I've come to accept that themes are more important than logic in these films. It's hard to let go of logic and common-sense when the series grounds itself in such a convincing reality, but... meh.

Where would they get the metal bars?