This is My Problem With Saito's Kicks

This 2010 contemporary sci-fi actioner follows a subconscious security team around the globe and into the intimate and infinite world of dreams.
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So, deep sedation prevents you from just dying and waking up. But, the deep sedation has a failsafe in that the ear is still functioning so changes in gravity or feelings of falling will snap you out. We know that a dreamer does not have to be aware that kick is coming, just get the kick (Leo isn't aware of the kick coming in the opening scene).

So, why didn't they just drop Saito off a building in the first level, activiting the failsafe of the drug, and he would snap out of the dream and not go to limbo? The reason everyone else doesn't die is because they are falling out of the levels upwards. Thus, Arainde and Fischer don't die because they jump, their ears register it, and it kicks them up the line --

So why did they not just drop Saito off a building? (unless of course they needed him down in limbo)

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You've got it backwards- the kick comes from 'above'. If you are asleep on your couch, you don't dream you are falling and then wake up...you are falling off the couch and get the sensation you are falling and therefore wake up.

That is why I have issues with the Level 4 kicks because, while Fischer was kicked from above with a defibrillator, how did Ariadne come out just by jumping? Other than she could have died in that level and perhaps the sedation was worn off enough for her to kick back to level 3.

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SPAWNmaster wrote:You've got it backwards- the kick comes from 'above'. If you are asleep on your couch, you don't dream you are falling and then wake up...you are falling off the couch and get the sensation you are falling and therefore wake up.

That is why I have issues with the Level 4 kicks because, while Fischer was kicked from above with a defibrillator, how did Ariadne come out just by jumping? Other than she could have died in that level and perhaps the sedation was worn off enough for her to kick back to level 3.
I don't quite remember the order, but were the charges in the snow fortress set off when she jumped or after she woke up?

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George wrote:
SPAWNmaster wrote:You've got it backwards- the kick comes from 'above'. If you are asleep on your couch, you don't dream you are falling and then wake up...you are falling off the couch and get the sensation you are falling and therefore wake up.

That is why I have issues with the Level 4 kicks because, while Fischer was kicked from above with a defibrillator, how did Ariadne come out just by jumping? Other than she could have died in that level and perhaps the sedation was worn off enough for her to kick back to level 3.
I don't quite remember the order, but were the charges in the snow fortress set off when she jumped or after she woke up?
It was right after she woke up.

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SPAWNmaster wrote: I don't quite remember the order, but were the charges in the snow fortress set off when she jumped or after she woke up?
It was right after she woke up.[/quote]

i still think the jump was to kill herself in limbo, considering the whole world was crumbling and all the building materials flying all over the place

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No, Leo turns to her in that scene and says "this is the kick--take it." They know that Eames is blowing up the support because of the buildings collapsing. To take the kick you have to accept it, which is why she jumps. It's a pull-push thing as someone on here has explained really well.

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paladinryan wrote:No, Leo turns to her in that scene and says "this is the kick--take it." They know that Eames is blowing up the support because of the buildings collapsing. To take the kick you have to accept it, which is why she jumps. It's a pull-push thing as someone on here has explained really well.
it could still just mean that the synchronized kick is imminent, so she need to get out of it or she will miss the whole process

but that's just me =P

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This is what Cwill wrote in "The Kick" posting and I think it has implications to your questions as well. It is, in my opinion, the explanation that has no faults to it and works at every level and every take. It's necessary, in this theory, to understand that the heavy sedation requires new governing laws in the dream. Because it is so powerful, a "bigger" kick is necessary (bigger, in this case, means multiple)...
Cwill wrote: Because of the potency of the sedative, two kicks needed to be synchronized on different levels. IE, a "push" and a "pull".

In limbo, Ariadne noticed the lightning that had begun, and knew Eames was attempting to resuscitate Fisher. Fisher is brought to level 3 through a push (thrown off the building), along with a pull (the defibrillator).

Once Ariadne notices the buildings in limbo are collapsing, she throws herself off the building, knowing Eames must have detonated the charges. Her push is her throwing herself off the building, synchronized with the pull occurring in level 3 with her body falling on debris from the explosion.

*The fact that the two kicks need to be synchronized explain -
--Why Cobb isn't pulled out of limbo.
--Why Arthur doesn't get pulled to level 1 when the van first goes off the bridge.
--Why none of them get kicked back into reality after waking in level 1 in the van.

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paladinryan wrote:No, Leo turns to her in that scene and says "this is the kick--take it." They know that Eames is blowing up the support because of the buildings collapsing. To take the kick you have to accept it, which is why she jumps. It's a pull-push thing as someone on here has explained really well.
I don't buy the "push" kick thing as it is never defined in the movie, but I see what you mean about Eames blowing up everything. Although there is a significant gap between when Ariadne comes back to the Level 3 dream state versus when it is finally blown so obviously that leaves some inconsistency in the movie (which is OK, this movie rocks anyways).

The only thing we are told (despite the ongoing conjecture in the Kick thread) is that if you die in a dream you wake up and if you get the sensation of falling (or other large external events) you will wake up. Those two rules are explicitly stated, everything else can only be inferred.

So I am more inclined to believe what the other guy said, which is that she (Ariadne) simply jumped and died which caused her to wake up. I would think that, that far into the inception, the sedatives would have worn off on some of the team so as to allow some to get away without any "limbo" issues. In other words, Ariadne took a "leap of faith". It was her decision to go down with Cobb anyways and think that fits more with the theme than to invent an entirely different type of kick that's never described in the movie.

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Although there is a significant gap between when Ariadne comes back to the Level 3 dream state versus when it is finally blown so obviously that leaves some inconsistency in the movie (which is OK, this movie rocks anyways).
You need to watch this scene more carefully next time. Eames (and Fischer I believe) leaves level 3 before her because it's already collapsing. She gets back to the snow fortress when its at the end of its collapsing, and she's the last person to leave that level. I noticed this the first time I saw it.

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