Another point, In the last sequence when Cobb is getting off the plane. Nolan makes sure that we notice every character to the point that it made me curious. Why would Nolan do this before the reveal? Because he wants us to know that the characters are not real and never have been.

Dana wrote:

sickofsickness wrote:
Depresses me. At that age, I was a nervous kid and stuttered alot. I am much more articulate now, but while I was a very smart child and people recognized that, I wasnt as consise as those kids. I mean I said smart things and had a very advanced vocabulary, but I was not articulate like them...I envy kids who can be that clear....I had speech therapy for years.

Aww, I'm sorry: I didn't mean to say he was nervous/stuttered. He could say things like "Daddy, Mommy, Food, etc." and simple sentences, but just did not have the coherency to say things like "Are you ever coming back? Is Mommy coming back?"

jibbajabba wrote:its not profound evidence I'm just saying that Nolan took the time to have us focus on each character before the reveal. Look, if Nolan didn't want this theory to be a possibility then he would not have: Had Mal suggest to Cobb that the authorities chasing him were his subconsious, had Cobb not use his own totem ( plus mention that it's a way to prove you're not within Someone's elses dream but never said anything about you're own dream). The similaraties to the Prestige and Memento are numerous with this theory.Prestige- A movie that makes the most sense when you view it the second time. Mememto- lying to one's self to be happy.

Arthur wrote:It doesn't really make sense if everybody is a projection of Dom's; it's cheap, goes against the logic the film establishes, and opens up a lot of holes. How would this theory explain their interactions away from Dom: the kiss; Saito and Eames in the lift; Arthur teaching Ariadne how to build; Eames interning in Fischer's office.

Personally, I believe that they are all real. If the end is a dream, then it becomes so when he he falls into limbo after Fischer. So when he wakes up on the plane again, that would be him dreaming from that point on. We never see any of the characters away from Cobb's perspective after that, so they could well be projections at that point, but to say that none of them were real all along doesn't make much sense to me.

The only evidence that you could say that backs up them being projections is Saito's words echoing Mal's; growing old, a leap of faith, etc.

sickofsickness wrote:

Arthur wrote:It doesn't really make sense if everybody is a projection of Dom's; it's cheap, goes against the logic the film establishes, and opens up a lot of holes. How would this theory explain their interactions away from Dom: the kiss; Saito and Eames in the lift; Arthur teaching Ariadne how to build; Eames interning in Fischer's office.

Personally, I believe that they are all real. If the end is a dream, then it becomes so when he he falls into limbo after Fischer. So when he wakes up on the plane again, that would be him dreaming from that point on. We never see any of the characters away from Cobb's perspective after that, so they could well be projections at that point, but to say that none of them were real all along doesn't make much sense to me.

The only evidence that you could say that backs up them being projections is Saito's words echoing Mal's; growing old, a leap of faith, etc.

Yes! Ill add one more...The whole movie is a projection of Mal. Everything that happens is in Mal's head. And in case you say, "no, she lost her mind", to you I say, "OR DID SHE? "

Dana wrote:I don't believe that the 'dream' ending makes more bold assumptions than a 'reality' ending. I think you assume this because you have the notion that what can be doubted cannot be fact. That is true, but that doesn't mean we don't have strong inferences. The totem/ring are not reality-decisive items; they are 'who's-dream-am-I-in' items. Reality cannot be checked decisively by the totem, but it can be strongly implied by 1) what the 'dreamer' perceives is reality or not, and 2) extraneous events such as that of an older pair of children calling their father and entities interacting with each other outside of 'dreamer'. A person has a good grasp of reality to begin with; the totem's purpose is to see the descent/condition of a person's grip on reality.

I never assume plane mission is limbo; I assume Cobb has a grip of reality up until the last scene, where he finally lets go of his hold of reality. Also limbo is not actually a 'level'. The 'levels' are what the Architect has built previously; they are a 'map' of sorts and parameters to lead the crew into following dream-within-a-dream so that the crew will know they are crossing a new level. Limbo can have several dream-with-in-a-dreams, except without an Architect that has already built levels in reality, it's much harder to realize that it's a dream/navigate around it.

I don't see what the point of saying I'm wasting 2 hours of my time theorizing is. Aren't you doing the same thing? I'm not saying nothing is real; I'm saying that the clues/construct of Inception strongly point to the end being a dream.

I think that the ending complies much more fluidly with it being a dream than reality.

Dana wrote:I am convinced that Cobb is still dreaming at the end from some pretty cohesive clues; of course, please debate with me on my theories! I'm quite sure now, but I might not have caught something that you did .

1) The two sets of children: In the credits, there are two sets of children of differing ages. This is easily explained; during the beginning scene where Cobb calls his children, the voices are obviously older than the age they appear as his projections. (Phillipa sounds five, older than she appears.) They are credited for this off-screen role. The real children are 5 and 3, they are the voices and the ones Cobb left behind- the children in reality. The projections are Cobb's manifestations of what they looked like when he left them.

2) How can the children wear the same clothes, have the same hair, and not visibly age in the time that it took Cobb to fly around the world, create a new line of work for himself as a top-notch extractor, and made contacts/coworkers such as Eames and Arthur, where he says himself he's worked with on previous jobs?

3) Many it-was-real theorists noted that Cobb always had a ring on when he was dreaming, and in the end he didn't have a ring (and some suggests that the ring is Cobb's original totem). However, I think that the ring was on par with Mal; they are manifestations/projections of his guilt over Mal's death. It is a symbol that he hasn't let go of his guilt. During Cobb's epiphany that Mal is just a shadow, he has finally let go of Mal and thus, let go of the ring. In the end scene, where he believes it is reality, he is still dreaming but he has let go of Mal/the ring.

4) The dreamer's totem trick does not indicate that it is reality; it simply indicates that they are not in someone else's dream since no one else knows the mechanics of their own totem. Because the dreamer knows how their own totem works, if they were trapped in their own dreams, their totem would work accordingly since they *know* how it works.

5) Whether or not the totem falls is not an indication of if it is a dream or not; it is an indication of whether Cobb believes it's a dream or reality. In a scene, Mal calls Phillipa and James and tries to get them to show Cobb their faces; this is heavily implied that once Cobb sees their faces, he will finally believe that his dream is a reality. In the end, Cobb sees their faces; it is then accepted that Cobb believes his dream is reality. Since Cobb controls the totem, if it falls, it means he has wholeheartedly accepted his dream as reality. If it doesn't fall, but wobbles, it indicates that Cobb has a wobbly grip on reality; while he still has his doubts on whether or not it is reality, he has more or less accepted that his dream is reality (with a much higher chance of 'coming back to reality' than if it topples completely).

Nevertheless, whether or not the totem topples over is moot; Cobb is dreaming.

sickofsickness wrote:
Im with you.

I really think that the idea he was dreaming the whole time cheapens and bastardizes the whole movie. If he was, why? to what end? What does this accomplish?

Ill twist your nipple further...what if the WHOLE thing was a dream, and no inception technology exists at all!!? WHAT IF MAL WAS STILL ALIVE and this was just a nightmare??

What if shes not really dead, and the whole thing is an allegory for divorce?

I mean....we could keep doing this, but I do believe that the movie did allow us to experience 'reality' to some extent, and I think the scenes with his father were those scenes.

Okay, maybe his father was dead to!! (dun dun dunnnnn)....

Saying the whole thing was a dream makes it seem like a shaymalan movie. None of Nolan's movies have that cheap of an ending.

Im not trying to be rude or sound like a dick. Im just saying that while the discussion of this is great, I need more evidence to convince me. As far as ME providing you evidence...I need to see it more times.