sickofsickness wrote:Just to clarify here, when we say Cobb is still dreaming, what we are saying is that he is in Limbo, rotting his brain, right? In other words, he cant be woken up.

Yes .

Did the rest of the crew get out? No. Cobb did not get out so they didn't.They are Cobb and Cobb is them. Mal was right when she "killed" herself. They were still sleeping but Cobb can't accept this. So he creates this elaborate world where he is on the run ( from his own subconscious). In his dream he is successful in the hiest and is able to let go of his guilt. So in his dream he is able to return home to his children and see their faces again. I don't believe a single shot of this movie took place outside of Cobb's own mind. Essentially Cobb is fighting his own mind ( such as the zero-gravity fight is a fight between different parts of his own subconscious). So in other words Cobb conquered his own mind.

I leave you with a phote from Leonard in Mememto who I believe is a similar character to Cobb in a lot of ways: " Do I lie to myself to be happy. In your case Teddy yes I will."

jibbajabba wrote:Did the rest of the crew get out? No. Cobb did not get out so they didn't.They are Cobb and Cobb is them. Mal was right when she "killed" herself. They were still sleeping but Cobb can't accept this. So he creates this elaborate world where he is on the run ( from his own subconscious). In his dream he is successful in the hiest and is able to let go of his guilt. So in his dream he is able to return home to his children and see their faces again. I don't believe a single shot of this movie took place outside of Cobb's own mind. Essentially Cobb is fighting his own mind ( such as the zero-gravity fight is a fight between different parts of his own subconscious). So in other words Cobb conquered his own mind.

I leave you with a phote from Leonard in Mememto who I believe is a similar character to Cobb in a lot of ways: " Do I lie to myself to be happy. In your case Teddy yes I will."

Again, I point out inconsistencies with this theory as to how the crew has interactions with EACH OTHER that Cobb doesn't witness and have absolutely no relevance to Cobb (Arthur and Ariadne's flirtation/kiss, the bickering between Arthur/Eames, etc.). There are several instances where the crew members act outside of Cobb, and do things that do not concern Cobb.

Dana wrote:

jibbajabba wrote:Did the rest of the crew get out? No. Cobb did not get out so they didn't.They are Cobb and Cobb is them. Mal was right when she "killed" herself. They were still sleeping but Cobb can't accept this. So he creates this elaborate world where he is on the run ( from his own subconscious). In his dream he is successful in the hiest and is able to let go of his guilt. So in his dream he is able to return home to his children and see their faces again. I don't believe a single shot of this movie took place outside of Cobb's own mind. Essentially Cobb is fighting his own mind ( such as the zero-gravity fight is a fight between different parts of his own subconscious). So in other words Cobb conquered his own mind.

I leave you with a phote from Leonard in Mememto who I believe is a similar character to Cobb in a lot of ways: " Do I lie to myself to be happy. In your case Teddy yes I will."

Again, I point out inconsistencies with this theory as to how the crew has interactions with EACH OTHER that Cobb doesn't witness and have absolutely no relevance to Cobb (Arthur and Ariadne's flirtation/kiss, the bickering between Arthur/Eames, etc.). There are several instances where the crew members act outside of Cobb, and do things that do not concern Cobb.

Also, Ariadne brings a level of intellect and freshness that Cobb does not possess. She DOES become his voice of reason but she cannot be part of his conscious because she does things that he knows he shouldn't do, like fold cities. Its like Fight Club. Tyler just does things, and Ed Norton plays along, always, never questioning. There is growth but no learning. In inception, there is learning, and as a brilliant student, she questions why things are the way they are.

So to have that internal monologue would not make sense...whereas in Fight Club there was no internal monologue of "why this and why that?" Norton/Jack just accepted things. Ariadne does not.

The little boy sounded like a little boy on the phone and I don't think the girl sounded as old as people are making it out to be.

GunRanger wrote:The little boy sounded like a little boy on the phone and I don't think the girl sounded as old as people are making it out to be.

The coherency of the little boy was that of a 3 year old, not a 20 month old (I just talked saw a 20 month year old earlier today, all he said was "YAAAYOOGAA"). Moreover, the girl sounded resentful, something I think would stem more from two years of an absent father and slow disillusionment.

Dana, the problem with "dream" ending requires way more bold assumptions and is accompanied with several challenges.

If the totem and Cobb's ring is not the decisive item to define reality, you are assuming that the whole movie is just a dream. Anything being said in the movie are meaningless. In the end of the day you are sort of wasting your 2 hours just to conclude that nothing is real.

For those who propose the dream ending with totem and wedding ring as the valid reality-checker. You then have to consider when Cobb began to dream. Assume the plane mission was a 1st layer dream, then Cobb actually went through 5 layers to get to Limbo, which is a challenge for the theorist to explain. If you assume plane mission was limbo, then Cobb should not be able to dream further.

At the end of the day. The movie has an undecisive ending for obvious reason. You believe what you want the ending to be. However the story flow fits better with "reality" ending compare to dream ending

Dana wrote:

GunRanger wrote:The little boy sounded like a little boy on the phone and I don't think the girl sounded as old as people are making it out to be.

The coherency of the little boy was that of a 3 year old, not a 20 month old (I just talked saw a 20 month year old earlier today, all he said was "YAAAYOOGAA"). Moreover, the girl sounded resentful, something I think would stem more from two years of an absent father and slow disillusionment.

Depresses me. At that age, I was a nervous kid and stuttered alot. I am much more articulate now, but while I was a very smart child and people recognized that, I wasnt as consise as those kids. I mean I said smart things and had a very advanced vocabulary, but I was not articulate like them...I envy kids who can be that clear....I had speech therapy for years.

Sungyungtey wrote:Dana, the problem with "dream" ending requires way more bold assumptions and is accompanied with several challenges.

If the totem and Cobb's ring is not the decisive item to define reality, you are assuming that the whole movie is just a dream. Anything being said in the movie are meaningless. In the end of the day you are sort of wasting your 2 hours just to conclude that nothing is real.

For those who propose the dream ending with totem and wedding ring as the valid reality-checker. You then have to consider when Cobb began to dream. Assume the plane mission was a 1st layer dream, then Cobb actually went through 5 layers to get to Limbo, which is a challenge for the theorist to explain. If you assume plane mission was limbo, then Cobb should not be able to dream further.

At the end of the day. The movie has an undecisive ending for obvious reason. You believe what you want the ending to be. However the story flow fits better with "reality" ending compare to dream ending

I don't believe that the 'dream' ending makes more bold assumptions than a 'reality' ending. I think you assume this because you have the notion that what can be doubted cannot be fact. That is true, but that doesn't mean we don't have strong inferences. The totem/ring are not reality-decisive items; they are 'who's-dream-am-I-in' items. Reality cannot be checked decisively by the totem, but it can be strongly implied by 1) what the 'dreamer' perceives is reality or not, and 2) extraneous events such as that of an older pair of children calling their father and entities interacting with each other outside of 'dreamer'. A person has a good grasp of reality to begin with; the totem's purpose is to see the descent/condition of a person's grip on reality.

I never assume plane mission is limbo; I assume Cobb has a grip of reality up until the last scene, where he finally lets go of his hold of reality. Also limbo is not actually a 'level'. The 'levels' are what the Architect has built previously; they are a 'map' of sorts and parameters to lead the crew into following dream-within-a-dream so that the crew will know they are crossing a new level. Limbo can have several dream-with-in-a-dreams, except without an Architect that has already built levels in reality, it's much harder to realize that it's a dream/navigate around it.

I don't see what the point of saying I'm wasting 2 hours of my time theorizing is. Aren't you doing the same thing? I'm not saying nothing is real; I'm saying that the clues/construct of Inception strongly point to the end being a dream.

I think that the ending complies much more fluidly with it being a dream than reality.

sickofsickness wrote:
Depresses me. At that age, I was a nervous kid and stuttered alot. I am much more articulate now, but while I was a very smart child and people recognized that, I wasnt as consise as those kids. I mean I said smart things and had a very advanced vocabulary, but I was not articulate like them...I envy kids who can be that clear....I had speech therapy for years.

Aww, I'm sorry: I didn't mean to say he was nervous/stuttered. He could say things like "Daddy, Mommy, Food, etc." and simple sentences, but just did not have the coherency to say things like "Are you ever coming back? Is Mommy coming back?"