MrFang wrote:

Dan_87 wrote:1 more question, how did Cobb so sure that Mal will kidnap Fischer, and how did she do that?

Mal is his guilty subconscious, so she always tries to sabotage him (i.e. he always tries to sabotage himself because he is so guilty about planting the idea in Mal that lead to her reality confusion). His deduction that Mal would kidnap Fischer represents nothing more than his knowledge of himself. He knows that his subconscious will attempt to prevent him from succeeding. And I suspect it would have been successful, had it not been for Ariadne's help.

waveking wrote:Err..A question here. When fischer and ariadne fall off the balcony in level 4, why do they end up in 3?? U see a kick has to come from an earlier dream. So to wake up from level 4 the kick has to be done in level 3. And cob himself said that dieing in the dream would send them to a limbo where they would be trapped forever. So Fischer and ariadne didn't die in level 4 but they didn't experience any kick either.

Fischer was in limbo, so, as per my theory, he could escape from limbo (back to level 3) by dying. Ariadne was simply in a deeper level of the dream, so she's kicked back by the snow fortress's collapse.

hmm....interesting point....but why this time he was sure that Mal is gonna get to Fischer first? do remember that everytime Mal appeared later then them to sabotage them?

so for Fischer he's in limbo, but for Cobb and Ariadne, they are just in level 4 dream, although all of them were in the same place?

waveking wrote:At this point I am beginning to question the use of destroying the fortress. Was it used as a kick to wake up from a higher level??
The fortress exploded in level 3 so that means it was meant to be a kick for a higher level i.e level 4. So that means that ariadne and fischer make the transition from 4 to 3 because of the destruction of the fortress. But then why the hell did fischer and ariadne jump off the roof. What purpose did it serve??

Someone else explained that Eames' explosion in level 3 was merely an harbinger (similar to the French song) that signaled to Dom, Ariadne and Fischer that they need to jump, which is what actually kicks them out of level 4. I don't think them jumping equaled them killing themselves, but rather them being kicked from the falling effect.

Wyatt wrote:

waveking wrote:At this point I am beginning to question the use of destroying the fortress. Was it used as a kick to wake up from a higher level??
The fortress exploded in level 3 so that means it was meant to be a kick for a higher level i.e level 4. So that means that ariadne and fischer make the transition from 4 to 3 because of the destruction of the fortress. But then why the hell did fischer and ariadne jump off the roof. What purpose did it serve??

Someone else explained that Eames' explosion in level 3 was merely an harbinger (similar to the French song) that signaled to Dom, Ariadne and Fischer that they need to jump, which is what actually kicks them out of level 4. I don't think them jumping equaled them killing themselves, but rather them being kicked from the falling effect.

You're implying that they are kicking themselves out of their own level, which isn't how it works. It would make sense that it is a harbinger to tell them to kill themselves and thus bring them back to 3 if they want to be back in time for the synchronized kicks (which Cobb, and obviously Saito cuz he's not there aren't)

What was the point of him trying the EKG when they were in limbo though?

SeraphX17 wrote:

Wyatt wrote:

waveking wrote:At this point I am beginning to question the use of destroying the fortress. Was it used as a kick to wake up from a higher level??
The fortress exploded in level 3 so that means it was meant to be a kick for a higher level i.e level 4. So that means that ariadne and fischer make the transition from 4 to 3 because of the destruction of the fortress. But then why the hell did fischer and ariadne jump off the roof. What purpose did it serve??

Someone else explained that Eames' explosion in level 3 was merely an harbinger (similar to the French song) that signaled to Dom, Ariadne and Fischer that they need to jump, which is what actually kicks them out of level 4. I don't think them jumping equaled them killing themselves, but rather them being kicked from the falling effect.

You're implying that they are kicking themselves out of their own level, which isn't how it works. It would make sense that it is a harbinger to tell them to kill themselves and thus bring them back to 3 if they want to be back in time for the synchronized kicks (which Cobb, and obviously Saito cuz he's not there aren't)

Yeah. Them jumping cannot wake them up from level 4 unless they die. And them dieing in level 4 cannot mean that they get back to level 3 as they are supposed to be still under heavy sedation.

Thanks a lot man. Helps a lot.

SeraphX17 wrote:

MrFang wrote:
Fischer was in limbo, so, as per my theory, he could escape from limbo (back to level 3) by dying. Ariadne was simply in a deeper level of the dream, so she's kicked back by the snow fortress's collapse.

So if the kick was meant for only Ariadne and Cobb, why did she try to kill herself? And in turn, why did she make it back through all of the synchronized kicks while Cobb didn't?

Ariadne didn't try to kill herself. She felt the kick from level 3 as level 4 began to disintegrate. That's why, as she was falling, Nolan kept a tight shot on her face as the background shifted around her and she woke up in level 3. So I suppose she didn't need to jump, though I didn't interpret it as a jump; it seemed to me that she was more throwing herself to the wind, giving in to the effects of the kick.

waveking wrote:

SeraphX17 wrote:

Wyatt wrote: Someone else explained that Eames' explosion in level 3 was merely an harbinger (similar to the French song) that signaled to Dom, Ariadne and Fischer that they need to jump, which is what actually kicks them out of level 4. I don't think them jumping equaled them killing themselves, but rather them being kicked from the falling effect.

You're implying that they are kicking themselves out of their own level, which isn't how it works. It would make sense that it is a harbinger to tell them to kill themselves and thus bring them back to 3 if they want to be back in time for the synchronized kicks (which Cobb, and obviously Saito cuz he's not there aren't)

Yeah. Them jumping cannot wake them up from level 4 unless they die. And them dieing in level 4 cannot mean that they get back to level 3 as they are supposed to be still under heavy sedation.

Some have suggested that getting out of limbo is possible by killing yourself, even when under sedation. If that's the case then it makes sense that Fischer came back first because he killed himself first. Then Ariadne right before the synchonized kick. But then Cobb was too late as he just stayed there and waited for the dream to collapse.

MrFang wrote:

SeraphX17 wrote:

MrFang wrote:
Fischer was in limbo, so, as per my theory, he could escape from limbo (back to level 3) by dying. Ariadne was simply in a deeper level of the dream, so she's kicked back by the snow fortress's collapse.

So if the kick was meant for only Ariadne and Cobb, why did she try to kill herself? And in turn, why did she make it back through all of the synchronized kicks while Cobb didn't?

Ariadne didn't try to kill herself. She felt the kick from level 3 as level 4 began to disintegrate. That's why, as she was falling, Nolan kept a tight shot on her face as the background shifted around her and she woke up in level 3. So I suppose she didn't need to jump, though I didn't interpret it as a jump; it seemed to me that she was more throwing herself to the wind, giving in to the effects of the kick.

What was the kick though from level 3? The explosion? I've heard that the explosion was just a signal to jump. But that does make more sense if the explosion was a kick for her and cobb. even then, why didn't cobb wake into 3 from the kick?

SeraphX17 wrote:You're implying that they are kicking themselves out of their own level, which isn't how it works. It would make sense that it is a harbinger to tell them to kill themselves and thus bring them back to 3 if they want to be back in time for the synchronized kicks (which Cobb, and obviously Saito cuz he's not there aren't)

What was the point of him trying the EKG when they were in limbo though?

They're not kicking themselves out of their own level. Ariadne is kicked out by the explosion in level 3. Fischer is kicked out because he was already in limbo, then he died in limbo, thus kicking him out. The EKG was meant to resuscitate Fischer's body so he was not still dead in level 3 and thus had a body to return to. What's the use of him escaping from limbo if he's just going to return to a dead body in level 3? The body needs to be alive for him to return to it.

Granted, my theory is dependent on the concept that people in limbo can escape by dying. However, I feel this is supported by the movie. How did Mal/Dom escape from limbo when they were there? By killing themselves. It makes sense that the same rules would apply to Fischer's/Saito's limbos.

SeraphX17 wrote: What was the kick though from level 3? The explosion? I've heard that the explosion was just a signal to jump. But that does make more sense if the explosion was a kick for her and cobb. even then, why didn't cobb wake into 3 from the kick?

Cobb didn't wake from the kick because he was beginning to question his reality, thus throwing him into a limbo-ish state, which can't be broken by a kick. In essence, he decided to ignore the kick and stay behind with Mal.

Ariadne was the one who suggested that Fischer can still be rescued from level 4. Cobb actually hesitated and ponder briefly on what she said, before realizing it could work, and pass specific instructions to Eames. We all need to watch the movie again :mrgreen: