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The Oscar Nominated writer and director to whom this site is dedicated.
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George wrote:The Blonde (Lucy Russell) in Following is pure femme fatale.

Natalie (Carrie-Anne Moss) at first appears to be a pure femme fatale in Memento, but I think there's more there to be found on subsequent viewings. Considering that she went through and helped Leonard (I don't think she knew Teddy, the guy she knew went to meet Jimmy, was the same cop that came into her bar named John G) I think she did care for Leonard by the end (or, well, the beginning of the film). She does manipulate the whole Leonard and Dodd situation, but we find out this is because Leonard himself put her in a position to be worried about Dodd. Leonard killed her husband and walks up to her in her husband's clothing and in his car. I see her as a victim. She does have a conflict to deal with in the film and she has some emotional depth that's evident in some of her early scenes.

Ellie (Hilary Swank) in Insomnia is almost completely a plot pawn, which was a little disappointing. There's clearly a small attempt made with the fact that Dormer is her personal hero and thus she feels some conflict, but I felt Swank wasn't given enough to do in the role.

Rachel (Katie Holmes) in Batman Begins mostly acts as the damsel in distress. Bruce needs to save her on three different occasions in the film. She is at least in a "strong" female role as the assistant DA who stands up for herself.

The Prestige has the most interesting mix of female roles. Julia (Piper Perabo) was basically character motivation for Angier and for kicking off the rivalry plot. Olivia (Scarlett Johansson) is a femme fatale of sorts. The problem I have with calling her a femme fatale is that she doesn't initially want to harm Angier in any way. Only after he wants to send her off as a pawn does she developed her hatred for him. And I would agree that Sarah (Rebecca Hall) was the most developed female character. A female character dealing with conflict and given a good amount of emotional depth.

Rachel (Maggie Gyllenhaal) in The Dark Knight was less a damsel in distress (although still needed saving on two occasions). A stronger female character, but still not given too much to do. She really was used as character motivation for Harvey and Bruce in the second half of the film. There was also Monique Gabriela Curnen (in what I hoped would be a larger role than what it ended up being) as Anna Ramirez, and Melinda McGraw as Barbara Gordon. Both were very small roles, but were useful female presence considering Rachel wouldn't be appearing in the final hour.


Nolan's films get some criticism for having weak female characters. And while i'd agree that they don't get nearly as much depth as their male counterparts, they also aren't the static housewives or girlfriends or sexual objects that other films utilize them as.
I think it just stems from the fact that female characters haven't yet been leads in any of Nolan's films. Although it does look like Ellen Page (and possibly to a lesser extent Marion Cotillard) may just be that in Inception if the production photos give any indication.
that's pretty much the B+ analysis about this topic, couldn't agree more.
:thumbup:

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filmfanatic wrote:Nolan's films are very much male driven in story, tone and marketing and I thought it would be interesting to discuss the roles that women play within his films. How do they factor in? Are they strong characters or are the underused?

Thoughts?
they're mostly are tragic characters...i think only hillary swank's character in insonmia was the exception

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filmfanatic wrote:
Eternalist wrote:His films are far more male-oriented which is understandable considering he's a male. But, I admire his use of female characters not as sex objects but as relevant characters who heavily influence the male characters. In his more recent films he's used female characters more as a reflection of a "normal life" which the characters would like to have but don't succeed in achieving. I'd like him to possibly give his female characters larger, or perhaps stronger roles in the future.
The most important female role in any of his films thus far has been Sarah Borden in The Prestige (Nolan's first real foray into meaty female characters). Not only has it been the strongest performance of any female lead in his films, but I think it has also been the most affecting and pivotal role. She creates a serious central conflict and a lot of the emotional impact of the film rests on her shoulders.

Rachel Dawes is really, when you come down to it, a throwaway character (more so in Begins than TDK). She is a strong female character but definitely flimsy in terms of overall structure. In Batman Begins she is more of a pawn, a damsel in distress that needs to be rescued by Batman. In The Dark Knight, she becomes a central character in the conflict driving not only Dent's rage fueled revenge but also Wayne/Batman's inner turmoil.

The female characters in Following, Memento and Insomnia are, again, very collateral characters. Existing to just drive the plot.
Think she served that same person in Batman Beings when talking about Batman's inner turmoil. The end of the movie summed it up nicely when she said she can never be in a relationship with him, because of what he has become. Her character was more perfectly needed in "Begins" because of that. She exposes the completeness of who Bruce Wanye is, make him more 3 dimensional than just "playboy by day" and "Batman by night".

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Eternalist wrote:His films are far more male-oriented which is understandable considering he's a male. But, I admire his use of female characters not as sex objects but as relevant characters who heavily influence the male characters. In his more recent films he's used female characters more as a reflection of a "normal life" which the characters would like to have but don't succeed in achieving. I'd like him to possibly give his female characters larger, or perhaps stronger roles in the future.
Well said Eternal.
I think its clear that Nolan has a healthy and mature view on women.

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Do any of his films pass The Bechdel Test?


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tomhagen wrote:Do any of his films pass The Bechdel Test?

I think Inception pass the test although it happens on a man's dream lol
Anyway what matters the most is: some of the movies you see there are great works of art despite the fact they don't pass the test, no big deal if you ask me as long as you have a good story I enjoy watching men and women the same way, I mean I've seen porn movies who pass the test, what does that tell you about judging films this way...

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I agree: it doesn't make a good film, but it's an interesting perspective.
OVERMAN wrote:
tomhagen wrote:Do any of his films pass The Bechdel Test?

I think Inception pass the test although it happens on a man's dream lol
Anyway what matters the most is: some of the movies you see there are great works of art despite the fact they don't pass the test, no big deal if you ask me as long as you have a good story I enjoy watching men and women the same way, I mean I've seen porn movies who pass the test, what does that tell you about judging films this way...

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OVERMAN wrote: I think Inception pass the test although it happens on a man's dream lol
I don't think it does actually, Ariadne and Mal do speak, but their topic of conversation (halted before it really gets going by Cobb) was almost certainly going to be about Cobb.

One thing I've always thought about this issue - I don't actually think that men can really, genuinely, write from a woman's perspective to a level that would be authentic enough to subdue the feminists (or really convince me). They just can't. I don't think it has anything to do with men hating women or seeing them as less than them or whatever. I think its just simple biology. Men are men and will never really know what the world is like from a woman's perspective, because they will never experience it from a woman's perspective. Just like I doubt a woman could really write from a man's perspective.

A fairly good example of this is Nick Hornby. Hornby wrote a load of novels about men and things that interest Men. But it wasn't just men who bought his books and related to the characters in them, women did too. He started getting a lot of criticism from female press that his books were always about men and women could relate to them too, so why not write from a woman's pov. So he tried. And it was awful. He could have spent his life researching that and I think the result would have been the same. the character he created just didn't feel like a real woman, more a man's projection of how he thinks a real woman would be. And just to keep it equal - I've read books by female authors that suffer in the same way, the men in the books just don't feel like real men, they feel more like a woman's projection of what a man should be (and seen some films by female directors that suffer in the same way too).

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What the heck is a real woman anyways? And I'm not talking about difference in organs here.

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Sara wrote:
OVERMAN wrote: I think Inception pass the test although it happens on a man's dream lol
I don't think it does actually, Ariadne and Mal do speak, but their topic of conversation (halted before it really gets going by Cobb) was almost certainly going to be about Cobb.

One thing I've always thought about this issue - I don't actually think that men can really, genuinely, write from a woman's perspective to a level that would be authentic enough to subdue the feminists (or really convince me). They just can't. I don't think it has anything to do with men hating women or seeing them as less than them or whatever. I think its just simple biology. Men are men and will never really know what the world is like from a woman's perspective, because they will never experience it from a woman's perspective. Just like I doubt a woman could really write from a man's perspective.

A fairly good example of this is Nick Hornby. Hornby wrote a load of novels about men and things that interest Men. But it wasn't just men who bought his books and related to the characters in them, women did too. He started getting a lot of criticism from female press that his books were always about men and women could relate to them too, so why not write from a woman's pov. So he tried. And it was awful. He could have spent his life researching that and I think the result would have been the same. the character he created just didn't feel like a real woman, more a man's projection of how he thinks a real woman would be. And just to keep it equal - I've read books by female authors that suffer in the same way, the men in the books just don't feel like real men, they feel more like a woman's projection of what a man should be (and seen some films by female directors that suffer in the same way too).
There are certain types of feminists that really annoy the everlasting fuck out of me.

To me, it all comes down to attitude - Nolan never portrays his women (even Natalie) as sex objects. They are often intelligent and uphold strong moral codes that the men don't. Ergo, he is not a sexist because he clearly sees them as equals. Now, I would like for Nolan to at least try and write a film with a female protagonist more because he's the one person who I think has the clout to get that done (outside of certain genres, female protagonists are few and far between), but I disagree with this very narrow view of what makes an acceptable female character according to certain types of feminists. Like I said, attitude matters a lot.

However, I slightly disagree about men and women being unable to write from the point of view of the opposite gender. For most it is difficult, but there are exceptions.

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