Nolan's downfall.

The Oscar Nominated writer and director to whom this site is dedicated.
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chom wrote:Image

It's cuz I've got a phd in internet anthropology. I've read so much forum bullshit over the years that I've become the David Attenborough of fanboys (if they made a documentary about it it would be Neckbeards In The Mountain Dew); I know what these ladies and gentlemen are gonna say about a movie before the movie comes out, and it's because they've got cyclical behavior: a movie/tv show/book/actor/director is obscure for awhile, and they love it, because they feel like it's their's. Their constant discussion of said property or person may lead to it/them getting more mainstream appeal, and they start to turn on it almost instantly. The director's now a hack, the lead actor's a dick, the writers betrayed them, all that maudlin shit.

They've created a fictional relationship between them and the director or movie series, and nothing will live up to the idealistic relationship they've imagined (just look at George Lucas and his fans, with the "he raped my childhood" stuff). They think the filmmakers who don't know that they even exist owe them something, but they never make it clear how they expect the filmmakers to pay them back (or what they owe them). They don't even realize that's not their job.

No matter how shitty a director's output may get, it's not up to him or her to keep up with the fantasies of online fans; that's impossible and insane. Fanboys have the same relationship with directors like George Lucas that Travis had with Betsy in Taxi Driver.

It'll happen to Nolan, probably, and Nolan neither should nor will give a shit. He'll sip his tea and never even know we exist.
Holy shit. This guy is awesome.

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Location: You're pretty good.
so uhmmm

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hahahahahahahahaha


-Vader

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prince0gotham wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 4:36 pm
so uhmmm
We assuming making TENET is the start of a downfall?

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Bacon wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 10:25 pm
prince0gotham wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 4:36 pm
so uhmmm
We assuming making TENET is the start of a downfall?
With a lot of the criticisms around TENET (sound mix, lack of character development, etc) how many other NolanFans members still feel that Nolan is the best director of our time? I mean I always thought it was pretty obvious that he stands above the rest, but now that I'm seeing a lot more criticisms from even his biggest fans or at least general agreement with the critics like yeah Nolan struggles with that, he's never done this well, he needs to get a handle on this, etc it is forcing me to reconsider if perhaps his direction and overall films are more flawed than I thought...

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lcbaseball22 wrote:
September 7th, 2020, 4:38 am
Bacon wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 10:25 pm
prince0gotham wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 4:36 pm
so uhmmm
We assuming making TENET is the start of a downfall?
With a lot of the criticisms around TENET (sound mix, lack of character development, etc) how many other NolanFans members still feel that Nolan is the best director of our time? I mean I always thought it was pretty obvious that he stands above the rest, but now that I'm seeing a lot more criticisms from even his biggest fans or at least general agreement with the critics like yeah Nolan struggles with that, he's never done this well, he needs to get a handle on this, etc it is forcing me to reconsider if perhaps his direction and overall films are more flawed than I thought...
Had Tenet been complete shit it wouldn't have nullified Nolan's previous work. This wouldn't have changed anything. Almost all great directors have a bad or mediocre entry in their career. Most have a couple. And what's most important to be pointed out here - Tenet is not one of those missteps. It is liked by the majority of the audience that has seen it. It will be a financial failure but there's an equally valid argument to be made whether it was because the movie is not AS liked by masses as his previous films or because of COVID (it is a combination of the two but I think the second one is much more impactful considering the relatively small opening numbers).

As for him being the best filmmaker of our time it depends on two completely different things: What do you mean by "our time" - is it this decade, this millenium or a director's generation? And an individual's opinion. There's no one greatest director of say, his generation. Some people will say it's Tarantino, some will say it is Fincher and others will point out either of the Andersons, etc. If you liked Tenet and Nolan is still the greatest for you, then the movie's poor box office performance or other people's opinion of the film shouldn't dissuade you.

Now getting to a more personalized example, let's take a hypothetical into consideration - you absolutely hated Tenet but loved Nolan's previous work and you're confused as to where to rank Nolan now and want to reevaluate. I would recommend rewatching his movies, seeing if maybe it's the case of your changed taste (people change as do their opinions). If it hasn't then there you go, you can still love his past work and hope for a return to form (kind of like me after Dunkirk). If it has then maybe you should be looking more into different films that will give you what you're looking for now and downgrade Nolan in your ranking. It all depends on your personal experience with his films.

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LelekPL wrote:
September 7th, 2020, 5:15 am
lcbaseball22 wrote:
September 7th, 2020, 4:38 am
Bacon wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 10:25 pm


We assuming making TENET is the start of a downfall?
With a lot of the criticisms around TENET (sound mix, lack of character development, etc) how many other NolanFans members still feel that Nolan is the best director of our time? I mean I always thought it was pretty obvious that he stands above the rest, but now that I'm seeing a lot more criticisms from even his biggest fans or at least general agreement with the critics like yeah Nolan struggles with that, he's never done this well, he needs to get a handle on this, etc it is forcing me to reconsider if perhaps his direction and overall films are more flawed than I thought...
Had Tenet been complete shit it wouldn't have nullified Nolan's previous work. This wouldn't have changed anything. Almost all great directors have a bad or mediocre entry in their career. Most have a couple. And what's most important to be pointed out here - Tenet is not one of those missteps. It is liked by the majority of the audience that has seen it. It will be a financial failure but there's an equally valid argument to be made whether it was because the movie is not AS liked by masses as his previous films or because of COVID (it is a combination of the two but I think the second one is much more impactful considering the relatively small opening numbers).

As for him being the best filmmaker of our time it depends on two completely different things: What do you mean by "our time" - is it this decade, this millenium or a director's generation? And an individual's opinion. There's no one greatest director of say, his generation. Some people will say it's Tarantino, some will say it is Fincher and others will point out either of the Andersons, etc. If you liked Tenet and Nolan is still the greatest for you, then the movie's poor box office performance or other people's opinion of the film shouldn't dissuade you.

Now getting to a more personalized example, let's take a hypothetical into consideration - you absolutely hated Tenet but loved Nolan's previous work and you're confused as to where to rank Nolan now and want to reevaluate. I would recommend rewatching his movies, seeing if maybe it's the case of your changed taste (people change as do their opinions). If it hasn't then there you go, you can still love his past work and hope for a return to form (kind of like me after Dunkirk). If it has then maybe you should be looking more into different films that will give you what you're looking for now and downgrade Nolan in your ranking. It all depends on your personal experience with his films.
Sorry, perhaps I should have been more clear. Let's say since Nolan came on the scene in 2000 with Memento. Also let's be clear that I'm talking about in the context of being the greatest, so if Nolan has flaws as a filmmaker these things might be very nitpicky...and perhaps what I'm reading is just that, because he's previously set the bar sooo high. Alternately I was wondering though if perhaps these are issues/weaknesses that I was just previously blind to while thinking he was in a league of his own...

Also I was just curious to see what everyone thought; If Nolan isn't the #1 director of the past 20 years then who is? Fincher would probably be my runner-up, but then his films seem even more cold and emotionless than Nolan's. And then there are guys who have made some masterpieces here and there (Spielberg, Cameron, Scorsese, Howard, Jackson, Mendes, etc) but I would probably argue nobody's body of work has been as consistent as Nolan's. Oh, and personally I do not like PTA or Tarantino very much so I don't consider them in the conversation. What do you think?

My personal ranking of Nolan's films btw, though it's been a few years since I last saw most of these...

Memento: A+
Inception: A+
The Dark Knight: A
Interstellar: A-
The Prestige: A-
The Dark Knight Rises: A-
TENET: B+ (initial watch)
Batman Begins: B+
Following: B
Insomnia: B-

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Vader182 wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 4:38 pm
hahahahahahahahaha


-Vader
:lol:
I could put this response into many of the Tenet threads as well.

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lcbaseball22 wrote:
September 7th, 2020, 4:38 am
With a lot of the criticisms around TENET (sound mix, lack of character development, etc) how many other NolanFans members still feel that Nolan is the best director of our time? I mean I always thought it was pretty obvious that he stands above the rest, but now that I'm seeing a lot more criticisms from even his biggest fans or at least general agreement with the critics like yeah Nolan struggles with that, he's never done this well, he needs to get a handle on this, etc it is forcing me to reconsider if perhaps his direction and overall films are more flawed than I thought...
To be honest, I never thought he was the best director of our time, but he was always my favorite director. Assuming that, to be a fan of something you need to consider that something the best of its kind, is not entirely right.

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lcbaseball22 wrote:
September 7th, 2020, 5:51 am
Sorry, perhaps I should have been more clear. Let's say since Nolan came on the scene in 2000 with Memento. Also let's be clear that I'm talking about in the context of being the greatest, so if Nolan has flaws as a filmmaker these things might be very nitpicky...and perhaps what I'm reading is just that, because he's previously set the bar sooo high. Alternately I was wondering though if perhaps these are issues/weaknesses that I was just previously blind to while thinking he was in a league of his own...

Also I was just curious to see what everyone thought; If Nolan isn't the #1 director of the past 20 years then who is? Fincher would probably be my runner-up, but then his films seem even more cold and emotionless than Nolan's. And then there are guys who have made some masterpieces here and there (Spielberg, Cameron, Scorsese, Howard, Jackson, Mendes, etc) but I would probably argue nobody's body of work has been as consistent as Nolan's. Oh, and personally I do not like PTA or Tarantino very much so I don't consider them in the conversation. What do you think?

My personal ranking of Nolan's films btw, though it's been a few years since I last saw most of these...

Memento: A+
Inception: A+
The Dark Knight: A
Interstellar: A-
The Prestige: A-
The Dark Knight Rises: A-
TENET: B+ (initial watch)
Batman Begins: B+
Following: B
Insomnia: B-
Well, if you were to ask me about the last 20 years, I'd also say Nolan is number one for me. In other decades it would depend on whether you value consistency more or individual flashes of brilliance but with Nolan I feel we're getting the best of both worlds. He's nothing if not consistent when it comes to his popularity with the general audience and he has some of the best films of the two decades under his belt. It's enough to point out that The Dark Knight is for me the best film of the 2000s while Interstellar is the best one of 2010's. That's two best films of each decade and his other films are mostly either great or really good.

As for other filmmakers that have put out great work last 20 years:
2. Tarantino (Basterds is the second best movie of 2000s and he also had Django, Kill Bill, Hollywood)
3. Fincher (The Social Network is top 3 of 2010s and he also had the underrated Zodiac and Gone Girl)
4. PTA (There Will Be Blood is a work of art, as is The Master)
5. Scorsese (Even though I didn't like The Irishman, he still had The Departed, Wolf of Wall Street, Gangs of New York and Silence)
HM: Damian Chazelle (I feel he's just starting but La La Land and Whiplash were tremendous and First Man was not far behind)

Of course I could mention many more - the mexican trifecta of Del Toro, Cuaron and Inarritu, Park Chan Wook, Wes Anderson, Ang Lee, Soderbergh, Spielberg (definitely a lesser quality period for him but still had some gems), Adam McKay (yep, great period of both comedic and dramatic success), Edgar Wright, Wojciech Smarzowski, Martin McDonagh, Danny Boyle, even Ben Affleck.

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