Do we really exist? Is the world we're living in real?

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chee wrote:
solo2001 wrote:But really, what so bad about questioning things? Especially about something as big as reality. I find the more something is generally accepted the more interesting the debate is. As long as both sides are willing to be fair.
Question all you want. You're not gonna get any where without evidence though.
You can certainly bring evidence into it, but it's worthless if you don't do a bit of philosophizing on your own. (Not to say that they're mutually exclusive!!!)

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solo2001 wrote:
chee wrote:Question all you want. You're not gonna get any where without evidence though.
You can certainly bring evidence into it, but it's worthless if you don't do a bit of philosophizing on your own. (Not to say that they're mutually exclusive!!!)
What evidence though? Where's the evidence that some guy has me plugged into a computer or whatever? It's the same as the alien thing, if there is no evidence of aliens then them coming down and helping us build pyramids is just ludicrous.

solo2001 wrote:
chee wrote: You can certainly bring evidence into it, but it's worthless if you don't do a bit of philosophizing on your own. (Not to say that they're mutually exclusive!!!)
What evidence though? Where's the evidence that some guy has me plugged into a computer or whatever? It's the same as the alien thing, if there is no evidence of aliens then them coming down and helping us build pyramids is just ludicrous.
*deep thought* Hmm... alright fuck it, You win. :clap: (boy, when does that happen on the internet?) Though i'm not sure the notion of an alternate reality or whatever is as outlandish as it seems, but I can do nothing but speculate.

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What kind of evidence do you expect?

On top of everything you're mixing the theories and the questions and everything. First you say nothing's real, then you say that just matter isn't real, then you suggest that nothing would be real and we would be living in the Matrix in case we're part of someone's subconscious and THEN you suggest that actually CONSCIOUSNESS is the single thing that is real and the single thing that keeps this world structured and the single thing that binds all of us and the single thing that guides us and the single thing that binds stuff into matter, so some people would then call it real. That consciousness creates reality, but still you're coming from the thought that something created by somebody's mind wouldn't be real (like if I created an alter ego of myself it wouldn't be real, because you did start with that very question).

And I can go on for hours.

Believe me I do like following similar motives in movies and literature, I love Bill Hicks (who's a bit taken out of context in this video) and I fuckin listen to fuckin TOOL, A Perfect Circle and Puscifer (hail Maynard James fuckin Keenan) but... cmon... This is going nowhere and these guys' theories can get close to 50% right only if said in an abstract manner. They don't have much evidence about anything and I don't know how many people will need to tell you to at least change your tone and stop making bold statements and start choosing your words wisely.



Notice the analogy? About the 2 dimensional object not being able to truly perceive the 3rd dimension, like the 3rd dimensional object would? Now that's pretty much our state and there's no way around that.

Tl-Dr, But I LUV Carl Sagan! Seen that video a thousand times.

And upon further thought, the side I was taking drew WAY too many parallels with the wrong side of religious debates (Proud atheist, btw). I do enjoy debate for the sake of debate, because it keeps your brain stimulated :D But yeah, i'm not sure what I was thinking.

EDIT: Why exactly would you write a giant post explaining how I was wrong after I just posted that I sided with you? :wtf:

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solo2001 wrote:Tl-Dr, But I LUV Carl Sagan! Seen that video a thousand times.

And upon further thought, the side I was taking drew WAY too many parallels with the wrong side of religious debates (Proud atheist, btw). I do enjoy debate for the sake of debate, because it keeps your brain stimulated :D But yeah, i'm not sure what I was thinking.

EDIT: Why exactly would you write a giant post explaining how I was wrong after I just posted that I sided with you? :wtf:
I wasn't disagreeing with you, the post was directed towards Jackson.

Ahhh, well that makes a lot more sense! I got the wrong Idea cause I was the last person to post. :mrgreen:

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chee wrote: What evidence though? Where's the evidence that some guy has me plugged into a computer or whatever? It's the same as the alien thing, if there is no evidence of aliens then them coming down and helping us build pyramids is just ludicrous.
It doesn't have to be some guy hooked us into a machine. That's not the point that I am trying to make. I am saying that maybe this world we're living in is not real and what we see is just some images generated from our mind as consciousness. We all have the same consciousness because we all came from the same person. Therefore, all what we see or feel looks the exact same to us.
On top of everything you're mixing the theories and the questions and everything. First you say nothing's real, then you say that just matter isn't real,
Everything is considered matter.
then you suggest that nothing would be real and we would be living in the Matrix in case we're part of someone's subconscious
I never said that we're part of someone's subconscious. I am just saying that there is a possibility that the world we live in is not real.
THEN you suggest that actually CONSCIOUSNESS is the single thing that is real and the single thing that keeps this world structured and the single thing that binds all of us and the single thing that guides us and the single thing that binds stuff into matter, so some people would then call it real.
I didn't say consciousness is real, consciousness and matte are two different things.
That consciousness creates reality, but still you're coming from the thought that something created by somebody's mind wouldn't be real
Conscious makes you think that you are real. It is the way our minds perceives this world.
Last edited by Jackson on December 22nd, 2010, 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jackson wrote:
chee wrote: What evidence though? Where's the evidence that some guy has me plugged into a computer or whatever? It's the same as the alien thing, if there is no evidence of aliens then them coming down and helping us build pyramids is just ludicrous.
It doesn't have to be some guy hooked us into a machine. That's not the point that I am trying to make. I am saying that maybe this world we're living in is not real and what we see is just some images generated from our mind as consciousness. We all have the same consciousness because we all came from the same person. Therefore, all what we see or feel looks the exact same to us.
Yea, and that's why I said "or whatever".

There's no evidence for whatever you think is going on. The only evidence is the fossil evidence that leads the conclusion that we evolved from other animals.

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The only evidence is the fossil evidence that leads the conclusion that we evolved from other animals.
:eh:

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