RIFA wrote:Jackson, I thought about this issue but never actually gave it enough importance to consider it being worthy of discussion.

I don't believe in such thing and even if we are someone's imagination or just a "Sims" game... What would be the point of discussing it? There's nothing that I could do about it anyway...

Just like to have a scientific/religious discussion.

Jackson wrote:1: How do I know that you have a consciousness?
2: How can I know that you have feelings and aren't just a hallow body?
3: Everything that has a beginning has an end. But what is the beginning of the universe?
4: How is it possible that we exist?
5: How can the Universe leap into existence?
6: There has to be a beginning… Are we just programs controlled by the Machines?
7: Are we just living a dream world ?
8: Are our emotions and feelings just stimulated by our brain?
9: Do I exist?

1: You don't.
2: With our current technology you can't for sure. But I have feelings, I assure you.
3: Big Bang.
4: Evolution.
5: Again, Big Bang.
6: There's a chance, but probably not.
7: Personally, when i'm in a dream I think it's reality. But when i'm I wake up I know I was dreaming. So i'm pretty sure i'm in reality right now. (Or i'm in one long-ass dream that you're a part of. We can't be certain of anything 100%.)
8: No, stimulated by the outside world, interpreted through our brain. (Or if you meant simulated, also no.)
9: Yes.

If you want me to clarify anything let me know, but I think I was pretty concise.

RIFA wrote:I don't believe in such thing... What would be the point of discussing it? There's nothing that I could do about it anyway...

Right, but because you do believe in benevolent aliens coming to earth hundreds of years ago and putting a firecracker up mankind's ass, that is worth discussing? The guy believes it and wants to have a serious discussion about it. It's no more stupid than your aliens madness.

EDIT: Then again, 'Is Eames bilingual' is no more stupid than 'Is Eames gay?' so what do I know?

8: No, stimulated by the outside world, interpreted through our brain. (Or if you meant simulated, also no.)

What if our mind perceives that matter is filling the space around you while it doesn't actually exist?

I recommend watching this video:

Jackson wrote:Just like to have a scientific/religious discussion.

&

Anne Elk (Miss) wrote: Right, but because you do believe in benevolent aliens coming to earth hundreds of years ago and putting a firecracker up mankind's ass, that is worth discussing? The guy believes it and wants to have a serious discussion about it. It's no more stupid than your aliens madness.

EDIT: Then again, 'Is Eames bilingual' is no more stupid than 'Is Eames gay?' so what do I know?

It's not the same. In a scientific/religious discussion you have certain issues that concern our past and our ancestors... What you're asking is if we're living in a matrix-world which is a pretty much fantasy stuff...

In order to find out if aliens came on earth thousands of years ago I don't have to cut myself or jump off a bridge... You only need some more research and you'll get the right answers, maybe not now, but definitely sometime in the near future... In your case you have to kill yourself (which is stupid)... so uhmm NO! It's not the same thing

PS: I can't believe you're comparing "alien coming to earth" with "living in an unreal world or a matrix-world"... If you ask anyone which one is more fantasy 9 from 10 will say the matrix-world... because one alien coming down on earth thousands of years ago is still more plausible because it's not something that far-fetched as this... If you can tell me one way to find out if you're living in a matrix world besides killing yourself I will be pleased to say that this discussion is more "logical"

Jackson wrote:1: How do I know that you have a consciousness?
2: How can I know that you have feelings and aren't just a hallow body?
3: Everything that has a beginning has an end. But what is the beginning of the universe?
4: How is it possible that we exist?
5: How can the Universe leap into existence?
6: There has to be a beginning… Are we just programs controlled by the Machines?
7: Are we just living a dream world ?
8: Are our emotions and feelings just stimulated by our brain?
9: Do I exist?

1. You have a consciousness because you have "reason"...
2. Yes we have feelings. Even the murderers and the insane ones have some sort of feelings towards something they feel attracted to.
3. Big Bang? And what's the beginning of big bang?... What was before big bang?...
4. Evolution/Cloning etc. You could think pretty much here about everything... There still ain't a theory proven to be the right one so... you don't really know for sure how is it possible.
5. I think it has something to do with time. I think time is a very important factor in almost everything. It's like a mechanism.
6. And who are those machines?... They are aliens (extra-terrestrials). You know why? Because they are not terrestrial as from the earth/world we know. Therefore my theory about aliens could be right...
7. Dream world ? No. Alternate reality? Possible. Matrix-world (programmed)? It's pretty much far-fetched.
8. Well, not only by the brain. There are some things that are still unexplained.
9. Yes. Even if you are in an alternate reality or even in a matrix-world you still exist, at least in that world. And that is what's important. If you can think, reason, talk and feel then you exist. At least that's what scientists say and I believe.

I agree with RIFA, this is quite a bit more fantasy based and far-fetched then his alien idea.

RIFA wrote: 1. You have a consciousness because you have "reason"...
2. Yes we have feelings. Even the murderers and the insane ones have some sort of feelings towards something they feel attracted to.
3. Big Bang? And what's the beginning of big bang?... What was before big bang?...
4. Evolution/Cloning etc. You could think pretty much here about everything... There still ain't a theory proven to be the right one so... you don't really know for sure how is it possible.
5. I think it has something to do with time. I think time is a very important factor in almost everything. It's like a mechanism.
6. And who are those machines?... They are aliens (extra-terrestrials). You know why? Because they are not terrestrial as from the earth/world we know. Therefore my theory about aliens could be right...
7. Dream world ? No. Alternate reality? Possible. Matrix-world (programmed)? It's pretty much far-fetched.
8. Well, not only by the brain. There are some things that are still unexplained.
9. Yes. Even if you are in an alternate reality or even in a matrix-world you still exist, at least in that world. And that is what's important. If you can think, reason, talk and feel then you exist. At least that's what scientists say and I believe.

1: The fuck?
2: He was asking how he could know if we have feelings, not whether or not we have them.
3: The Big Bang created time, so... Nothing. (Or if you're not inclined to believe that, then the next best thing is "No one has any fucking idea.")
4: Sweet Jesus dude, Evolution is scientific fact, no question.
5: Well it took time to create the universe, so I suppose so. Not 100% if it was imperative to the creation itself tho.
6: I agree the Alien debate is a valid one. But so is this debate! I'm not sure what your motivation is to put it down, what's wrong with philosophical discussion?
7: There's just as much evidence for an alternate reality as there is for a simulated reality. (i.e. slim to none :mrgreen: )
8: Yes, there's much to still be discovered.
9: It all just depends on if you consider existence to be consciousness or something else. I've yet to have a concrete opinion on that one.

Jackson wrote:

8: No, stimulated by the outside world, interpreted through our brain. (Or if you meant simulated, also no.)

What if our mind perceives that matter is filling the space around you while it doesn't actually exist?

Then we wouldn't perceiving things from the outside world. But there's alot of tangible evidence to back up that we are.

RIFA, evolution is a scientific fact. A theory, in science terms, just means how the law works. It is considered fact as long as there isn't any contradicting evidence (which there is none).

I still don't see why us humans are always the victim. So these "people" who "control" us get to have reality? But we don't? Why don't "they" have anybody controlling them?

chee wrote:RIFA, evolution is a scientific fact. A theory, in science terms, just means how the law works. It is considered fact as long as there isn't any contradicting evidence (which there is none).

I still don't see why us humans are always the victim. So these "people" who "control" us get to have reality? But we don't? Why don't "they" have anybody controlling them?

+1

By the way, awesome Av/Sig chee.

chee wrote:RIFA, evolution is a scientific fact. A theory, in science terms, just means how the law works. It is considered fact as long as there isn't any contradicting evidence (which there is none).

I still don't see why us humans are always the victim. So these "people" who "control" us get to have reality? But we don't? Why don't "they" have anybody controlling them?

...maybe they do it's a FRACTAL TRANS-PERCEPTIVE SIMULATED REALITY!!!

And RIFA, Gravity is a scientific theory, and i'm pretty sure it's proven to be fact. (preeeetty sure)