Malaysian Flight Shot Down Over Ukraine

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Talli... if general knowledge is not your forte then why do you bother? Stick to what you know.


10th posted prince. :thumbdown:

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prince0gotham wrote:
celibate wrote:You can't make media not an illusion because that's what it is. Nobody goes to to a magic show, expecting to see the mechanics of the trick, they want to be fooled to believe in the magic. In the same way, you have to just simple acknowledge that media is theatre, and turn it off. The problem is people still want to look at media and fool themselves into thinking that they are acquiring knowledge.

And taking responsibility is as simple as saying, today I'm going to be responsible for my own peace and freedom. No forces outside of my control are going to be able to take it from me. You can't give somebody else peace and freedom, each individual has to claim it for themselves and it has nothing to do with exerting force or taking action on something outside of you.


the argument about ukraine/separtists is moot and its just going around in the hamster wheel. no matter how you slice it, everybody acts and reacts in their own self-interest and you cant blame anyone for it. It's the example of what I'm talking about...you cant take a side in it, unless you have bought into a narrative framed by whatever media you indulge in. The minute you take a side, you have to take a step back and remember that you are buying into the theatre. Disassociate, and reclaim your peace and freedom. Because if you dont, you share responsibility for tragedies like this.
What I see in this is your excuse to not analyze the situation.

Calling the media an absolute illusion, which it is - only for the most part, is a green light for idle passiveness. You're basically telling people to give up on trying to make their own sense out of the cloud of fallacies and confusion. In that sense, you're not encouraging responsible actions or an 'active role' at all. You're encouraging the avoidance of it by preaching futility.

I mean it's not just with media. 90% of everything is bullshit and if 'giving up' applies to media then everyone should give up on anything.

You see, you're reducing things down to 'don't believe that and this, don't take a side, don't overthink it' and then say that things are as simple as saying 'i'm responsible'. You're cutting the connection between cause and effect here. Do you not see that you don't encourage responsibility by telling people 'not to do anything'?

Because essentially your point is that no one's opinion will ever be 100% objectively informed (not something I'd disagree with), so because an opinion can never be 100% informed and best suited for a task - then people shouldn't act on any kind of opinion simply because it could be wrong and because they may end up sharing responsibility for whatever goes wrong.

You're not encouraging responsibility that way, you're encouraging fear of action exactly because action means consequence and consequence means responsibility. In that way you make responsibility something to be feared.
nah man. I'm encouraging positive action over negative action. That's your ego talking. The ego loves to appoint it self as righteous judge of character and create guilt over not doing something, when in reality its just motivating you through negative emotions to feed the beast more and more fear and hatred. The ego fuels off of the theatre. You're looking at images of people, but you're not seeing individuals. You're seeing your ego project itself into these images, and create subpersonalities within your mind; the helpless victim, the evil doer, the righteous protector, etc. You keep saying that you acknowledge that it's theatre, yet you then regress back to the attitude and feelings that are created by the theatre. This itself shows why it's so hard for people to turn it off, because after years and years of being programmed by these stories people eventually are addicted to them. It's the same reason why people who are going through depression can't easily just step outside of it, because the feelings experienced pull you further into it. The ego is telling you it's not taking action, when it is actually a very active pursuit and positive effort towards peace and freedom.

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You're envisioning a kind of positive-thinking-utopia that can't exist. I'm not even a fan of activism. I nearly distaste most activism and am a very passive person myself. On the other hand though I know it has a place in the world. I know that if you rely on waiting for people (or forcing people) to do things for the optimally right and moral reasons then you'd get nothing done. In that sense, I acknowledge that activism, despite all of its pitfalls, manages to get some things done. At certain costs. I don't need to be a part of it or in favor of it. I don't feel I need to 'ban it' so that I make the impression that I don't condone it. I'm just in terms with the fact that it exists.

What you're suggesting though is utopian ideology based on positive thinking. I see you're convinced that whatever disturbs positive visualization doesn't have a place within the utopian bubble. So then you go against whatever disturbs positive visualization.

You do realize communists did pretty much the same right? I'm not calling you a hypocrite, because you're not even commenting on communism. I'm telling you what happens when people believe in perfection and utopias.

For me positive thinking lies in seeing problems as opportunities in disguise. Positive thinking means being in terms with imperfection and still doing things to improve what's imperfect. It doesn't mean giving up on whatever's imperfect and banning it or putting it out of our bubble. That's isolationism. It also doesn't mean being passive. I also think you confuse passivity with neutrality.

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prince0gotham wrote:You're envisioning a kind of positive-thinking-utopia that can't exist. I'm not even a fan of activism. I nearly distaste most activism and am a very passive person myself. On the other hand though I know it has a place in the world. I know that if you rely on waiting for people (or forcing people) to do things for the optimally right and moral reasons then you'd get nothing done. In that sense, I acknowledge that activism, despite all of its pitfalls, manages to get some things done. At certain costs. I don't need to be a part of it or in favor of it. I don't feel I need to 'ban it' so that I make the impression that I don't condone it. I'm just in terms with the fact that it exists.

What you're suggesting though is utopian ideology based on positive thinking. I see you're convinced that whatever disturbs positive visualization doesn't have a place within the utopian bubble. So then you go against whatever disturbs positive visualization.

You do realize communists did pretty much the same right? I'm not calling you a hypocrite, because you're not even commenting on communism. I'm telling you what happens when people believe in perfection and utopias.

For me positive thinking lies in seeing problems as opportunities in disguise. Positive thinking means being in terms with imperfection and still doing things to improve what's imperfect. It doesn't mean giving up on whatever's imperfect and banning it or putting it out of our bubble. That's isolationism. It also doesn't mean being passive. I also think you confuse passivity with neutrality.
“Problems cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them.”
Albert Einstein

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celibate wrote:
prince0gotham wrote:You're envisioning a kind of positive-thinking-utopia that can't exist. I'm not even a fan of activism. I nearly distaste most activism and am a very passive person myself. On the other hand though I know it has a place in the world. I know that if you rely on waiting for people (or forcing people) to do things for the optimally right and moral reasons then you'd get nothing done. In that sense, I acknowledge that activism, despite all of its pitfalls, manages to get some things done. At certain costs. I don't need to be a part of it or in favor of it. I don't feel I need to 'ban it' so that I make the impression that I don't condone it. I'm just in terms with the fact that it exists.

What you're suggesting though is utopian ideology based on positive thinking. I see you're convinced that whatever disturbs positive visualization doesn't have a place within the utopian bubble. So then you go against whatever disturbs positive visualization.

You do realize communists did pretty much the same right? I'm not calling you a hypocrite, because you're not even commenting on communism. I'm telling you what happens when people believe in perfection and utopias.

For me positive thinking lies in seeing problems as opportunities in disguise. Positive thinking means being in terms with imperfection and still doing things to improve what's imperfect. It doesn't mean giving up on whatever's imperfect and banning it or putting it out of our bubble. That's isolationism. It also doesn't mean being passive. I also think you confuse passivity with neutrality.
“Problems cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them.”
Albert Einstein
If only that quote argued with what I'm saying.

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whoa

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prince0gotham wrote:
celibate wrote:
prince0gotham wrote:You're envisioning a kind of positive-thinking-utopia that can't exist. I'm not even a fan of activism. I nearly distaste most activism and am a very passive person myself. On the other hand though I know it has a place in the world. I know that if you rely on waiting for people (or forcing people) to do things for the optimally right and moral reasons then you'd get nothing done. In that sense, I acknowledge that activism, despite all of its pitfalls, manages to get some things done. At certain costs. I don't need to be a part of it or in favor of it. I don't feel I need to 'ban it' so that I make the impression that I don't condone it. I'm just in terms with the fact that it exists.

What you're suggesting though is utopian ideology based on positive thinking. I see you're convinced that whatever disturbs positive visualization doesn't have a place within the utopian bubble. So then you go against whatever disturbs positive visualization.

You do realize communists did pretty much the same right? I'm not calling you a hypocrite, because you're not even commenting on communism. I'm telling you what happens when people believe in perfection and utopias.

For me positive thinking lies in seeing problems as opportunities in disguise. Positive thinking means being in terms with imperfection and still doing things to improve what's imperfect. It doesn't mean giving up on whatever's imperfect and banning it or putting it out of our bubble. That's isolationism. It also doesn't mean being passive. I also think you confuse passivity with neutrality.
“Problems cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them.”
Albert Einstein
If only that quote argued with what I'm saying.

It does. The conflict is created in the ego. And yet everybody thinks they can solve it by listening to their ego. The hamster wheel just goes and goes.

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celibate wrote:It does. The conflict is created in the ego. And yet everybody thinks they can solve it by listening to their ego. The hamster wheel just goes and goes.
Image

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'For two kilometres, a blogger from Russia has been driving behind covered BUK 1M which, according to his words, had been driving from the Ukrainian border. His opinion it that is exactly that BUK that made the shot,' said one version spreading on the web.

While the footage is visibly in Russia rather than Ukraine, the exact location is not given.
A second truck is also evident in some frames. It was filmed at around 8.45pm on Saturday.

Reports from Ukraine suggested the BUK had been smuggled in the dead of night into Russia soon after the plane was blasted out of the sky on Thursday last week.

It came after images were released of a launcher rumbling through Torez, held by pro-Russian separatists, just two hours before the Malaysia Airlines flight was shot down.

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I think we're on the brink of WW3

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