1. Oh, this is not a discussion about the past really. The issue here is not what humans did years ago. It's about justifying the horrible things we are doing now, because of what has been the precedent. I'm talking about the slaughter of some species, somebody comes and says here's the reason for the bias. Might as well try and explain to me why racists are the way they are. How our problematic history is any excuse for what is happening in present time?DHOPW42 wrote: ↑February 23rd, 2021, 5:31 amI know this wasn't the original point, but I have to point out that the domestication of certain species wasn't 100% conscious and directed only by humans. I've once read an interesting article about how dogs "domesticated" themselves in a way by realizing that humans are beneficial to their survival, and I'm sure many more examples could be found in nature for this phenomenon.
I only say this because I don't think it serves any purpose to try and solve economical and social issues of our distant past... mainly because I don't think all of that happened on a conscious level. Many species became intertwined in the pre-history of mankind, we hunted animals because we were animals, then as we became more human-like, some animals became accustomed to our company and we mutually evolved in a way that gave the basis for what is going on today. But it is such a complex system where there are a billion factors affecting certain processes that it comes down as demagogic to try to say that "this was wrong", "this was right".
I believe that the original domestication of the many species we find around ourselves (including vegetables and the like) happened on a semi-unconscious level, I would even call that the simple act of natural selection in a way, but whatever industrial apparatus has been built upon that original, natural gift is the real issue that we face nowadays, within the food, fashion and other related industries that exploit and abuse animals and other living things (including humans).
And I don't think anyone on these forums would argue that the modern food industry is completely fine and we shouldn't do anything about it. But, and I have to go back to our original argument in the Cruella topic (lol), some of us were merely pointing out that there is a reason why people are more sensitive towards the abuse of dogs than other domesticated house animals, such as cows or chicken. There are cultural reasons, and I'm pretty sure there are evolutionary reasons. This is something worth discussing, but I don't think anyone argued here that animal abuse and systematic extermination, in general, is okay...
2. Mutualist co-existence relies on two species freely making the choice to benefit from the other side, without one using some advantage to manipulate the other. If there is no balance of power, it becomes parasitical.
If you temporarily force an animal without shelter who can't survive in the wild or on the streets, to live with you, until you can connect with them and either give them a home or help them adapt with a free life in a liveable habitat, that's one thing. Taking away wild animals who can perfectly survive on their own or breeding them for your own gain is quite another.