Ressurection wrote:Its impossible to avoid all the religious motifs and symbolism in Prometheus. Especially after the link RIFA posted has gone viral many other places online, and it has spread like wildfire. Excuse me for not being in your flock of disciples of this highly religious opinion. Where people see hope and faith in Prometheus, I see ignorance and arrogance not yielding to such a big truth. Human nature haunting humans. That notion is yelled throughout the entire Alien franchise; humans are evil. (You don't see them fucking eachother over for a god damn %.) (The perfect organism, unclouded by morality) etc. This was spelled out in the franchise, but I was just blindly in love with the monster. And in Alien 4 its humans who are shown as the real monsters. Prometheus makes me love the monster even more, and just nod a whole lot to the human arrogance themes.

Monsters in these movies work like villains in other movies. Say Joker. Many people said TDK isn't about batman, it's about Joker, while joker is the skewed mirror of Batman pretty much like androids and xenomorphs can work as a skewed mirror to humanity on some level.

You end up with the mirrors getting much more floodlight and attention than the protagonists. (everyone knows the alien concept, not everyone knows or understands Ripley, similarly in this movie not everyone knows what to think when trying to read Shaw or not everyone understands why TDK was still about batman). You end up with them being more iconic for that particular movie or the franchise, with them being way more entertaining, but that, as deep as it can get, is still cheap compared to the light those mirrors shed on the protagonists.

This is why you're wrong, because you look at David and you look at the engineers and you see them as a nihilistic statement about how naive we are to need faith so much. How helpless we are to pull our mother's skirt every time we clash with the unknown.

In the end faith is a human emotional dependancy that, regardless if it gets misunderstood and perverted/corrupted by religious fanatics, it is THE (noble) human thing that defines us and we need it as much as we need anything else (passion, science) to achieve any goal or purpose.

And that's what the movie is saying.

prince0gotham wrote:You end up with the mirrors getting much more floodlight and attention than the protagonists. (everyone knows the alien concept, not everyone knows or understands Ripley, similarly in this movie not everyone knows what to think when trying to read Shaw or not everyone understands why TDK was still about batman). You end up with them being more iconic for that particular movie or the franchise, with them being way more entertaining, but that, as deep as it can get, is still cheap compared to the light those mirrors shed on the protagonists.

This is why you're wrong, because you look at David and you look at the engineers and you see them as a nihilistic statement about how naive we are to need faith so much. How helpless we are to pull our mother's skirt every time we clash with the unknown.

In the end faith is a human emotional dependancy that, regardless if it gets misunderstood and perverted/corrupted by religious fanatics, it is THE (noble) human thing that defines us and we need it as much as we need anything else (passion, science) to achieve any goal or purpose.

And that's what the movie is saying.

Wow. I agree wholeheartedly with your first part and thought this well formed post would end with "And this is why people have different interpretations" "Because of different experiences in Life, and how to see things", something Inception taught me.

Sadly I was given a "And this is why you are wrong". and "This is what the movie is saying".

Oh the humanity..

Gladly in the end, its just a movie.

Ressurection wrote:

prince0gotham wrote:You end up with the mirrors getting much more floodlight and attention than the protagonists. (everyone knows the alien concept, not everyone knows or understands Ripley, similarly in this movie not everyone knows what to think when trying to read Shaw or not everyone understands why TDK was still about batman). You end up with them being more iconic for that particular movie or the franchise, with them being way more entertaining, but that, as deep as it can get, is still cheap compared to the light those mirrors shed on the protagonists.

This is why you're wrong, because you look at David and you look at the engineers and you see them as a nihilistic statement about how naive we are to need faith so much. How helpless we are to pull our mother's skirt every time we clash with the unknown.

In the end faith is a human emotional dependancy that, regardless if it gets misunderstood and perverted/corrupted by religious fanatics, it is THE (noble) human thing that defines us and we need it as much as we need anything else (passion, science) to achieve any goal or purpose.

And that's what the movie is saying.

Wow. I agree wholeheartedly with your first part and thought this well formed post would end with "And this is why people have different interpretations" "Because of different experiences in Life, and how to see things", something Inception taught me.

Sadly I was given a "And this is why you are wrong". and "This is what the movie is saying".

Oh the humanity..

Gladly in the end, its just a movie.

You are wrong, objectively, since a lot of what's designed in the movie isn't intended to work on an emotion/interest-driven level. My whole post was about how the movie works on you being different from how something in it is important and to what extent and why.

We're chasing objectivity here. I mean, from a viewer's perspective the engineers and David were way more interesting to me than Shaw. I was more thrilled by it and, naturally, the movie took a lot longer to fit into Shaw's POV than Alien did (Alien didn't observe the events on that ship from way up, it also couldn't have done that given how narrower Alien is compared to big things and themes in Prometheus, it's just way more personal and character driven).

That said, I'd only be subjective about it if I took the engineers or David as the only important element of the movie and disregard their effect and purpose onto Shaw and humanity.

Zarathrustra said the great thing about man is that he's a bridge and not an end. Well Prometheus suggests the same about the engineers. They being a bridge too. The movie tells you not to look/go back after you've reached the supposed/obvious 'end'. That's what Shaw did. Decided not to look/go back.

This is why you can't take engineers, xenos or David and forget about how they work on the protagonist and how that protagonist then is used as a vessel for a possible message about faith.

And what I just told you is not subjective. If you just connect the dots in the movie with those in Zarathustra, then go back to the movie and give the protagonist and the ending a second though you'd see how you really are interpreting subjectively, because if I did the same subjective interpretation for TDK then TDK would've been saying how Batman really is the worst thing that happened to Gotham because it only made things worse.

These look amazingly realistic and functional.

That's incredible.

prince0gotham wrote:And what I just told you is not subjective. If you just connect the dots in the movie with those in Zarathustra, then go back to the movie and give the protagonist and the ending a second though you'd see how you really are interpreting subjectively, because if I did the same subjective interpretation for TDK then TDK would've been saying how Batman really is the worst thing that happened to Gotham because it only made things worse.

Prometheus failed to lay out the dots in that case, if the movie is what you say it is. Its the way the dots have been placed by many in the audience that is bad. It happened in Inception as well so its nothing new.(Man I read so many religious posts about Inception that made absolutely no sense) Plenty of movies are made for the subjective audience and Prometheus is no differ. I have never been religious and see absolutely no sense in, which may be why I struggle to see what makes so much sense about it in Prometheus. (Lv-223 being Levictus 2.23 is not something I have read anywhere else but in that halfway nutty opinion blog.) TDK is still for me about the chaos Batman is the creator of, because he failed to understand the criminal mind to begin with. And I hope Nolan gives him an even more chaotic and realistic ending in TDKR.

*Wow. Jawdropping prop work in Prometheus.

Mason wrote:That's incredible.

Yes. The most functionally looking alien suit I've ever seen. I mean the design of Batman's TDK suit is amazing but when you look at the rubberyness of it and then look at this you'll know what I mean.

Did you see the engineers suit from 2 pages ago?


And all that with Ridley having only 120 million budget on hands instead of 250 which he said he needed...

Ressurection wrote:

prince0gotham wrote:And what I just told you is not subjective. If you just connect the dots in the movie with those in Zarathustra, then go back to the movie and give the protagonist and the ending a second though you'd see how you really are interpreting subjectively, because if I did the same subjective interpretation for TDK then TDK would've been saying how Batman really is the worst thing that happened to Gotham because it only made things worse.

Prometheus failed to lay out the dots. Its the way the dots have been placed by many in the audience that is bad. It happened in Inception as well so its nothing new. Plenty of movies are made for the subjective audience and Prometheus is no differ. I have never been religious and see absolutely no sense in, which may be why I struggle to see what makes so much sense about it in Prometheus. (Lv-223 being Levictus 2.23 is not something I have read anywhere else but in that halfway nutty opinion blog.) TDK is still for me about the chaos Batman is the creator of, because he failed to understand the criminal mind to begin with. And I hope Nolan gives him an even more chaotic and realistic ending in TDKR.

Prometheus laid the dots out perfectly, even if the Nietzsche thing was a part of the campaign everything else is there in the movie. I'm not even talking about the Leviticus thing, I think that's bullshit and Ridley said it too.

prince0gotham wrote:Prometheus laid the dots out perfectly

Clearly, for those that are in the club of simply "choosing to believe". How do you see the sequel panning out?
I see no sequel, because this movie has failed. I love its ideas, but its "connection" to the Alien franchise was not good enough.

prince0gotham wrote:

Mason wrote:That's incredible.

Yes. The most functionally looking alien suit I've ever seen. I mean the design of Batman's TDK suit is amazing but when you look at the rubberyness of it and then look at this you'll know what I mean.

Did you see the engineers suit from 2 pages ago?


And all that with Ridley having only 120 million budget on hands instead of 250 which he said he needed...

Yeah, I literally just browsed this thread because I've been missing out on some stuff lately. The best thing about the Engineer suit is that, well this is what I thought, much of it looked very CGI when I was watching the film, and seeing the suit for real, it's just one amazing achievement. The design of absolutely everything in this film, CGI or not, is phenomenal, and I couldn't have thought up anything grander. I honestly don't believe we'd have seen such a huge difference with a bigger budget. I totally agree with you concerning the Bat suit, too.

I read somewhere that the size difference between the Engineer (suit and chair) in Prometheus was smaller than what we saw in Alien, the proportions are all wrong, and I can't remember who said it (it was either Ridley or a production designer), but apparently the shift in size was to make everything more "practical". Can you find this, do you think the size difference could be something related to the film?

Ressurection wrote:

prince0gotham wrote:Prometheus laid the dots out perfectly

Clearly, for those that are in the club of simply "choosing to believe". How do you see the sequel panning out?
I see no sequel, because this movie has failed. I love its ideas, but its "connection" to the Alien franchise was not good enough.

uhm...

First, it doesn't need the alien connection to proceed.
Second, it needed and took use of mostly the space jockey connection which was laid out there 30 years ago. I bet people were being called nuts for thinking the space jockeys created the aliens, but they really did.

Not that everything anyone ever guessed about the space jockeys turned out to be right. I'm saying that any suggestion that makes sense within the themes and purpose of this movie would work for the sequel. The Zeta 2 Reticuli thing in Alien didn't seem crucial at the time, I'm completely sure that almost anyone that was saying that it might be crucial was said to be a dellusional 'guessier' or 'believer in things'.

That said there's not a lot of sense to your post.

How do you see no sequel because it has failed? Movies fail and get sequels.
Why has it failed? What did you think its purpose was?
Why do you think it needs the xeno connection to go on? I don't even think the xeno will be a huge part of the sequel.

Ofc it can go in several ways. Many people have always been suggesting that the engineers were at wars among themselves or with another race and that they engineered the xenos as a bioweapon. In Prometheus we see them wanting to use that bioweapon against humans only, but that might not be all they use it for. That means we can see them be at war in the sequel and that means we might see them use the xenomorphs. Or we might not and the xenos won't play any role at all. The goo most certainly will, but xenos might not be necessary. Whatever works for the sequel I'll be fine with. I think most of the problems people have had with Prometheus are because of conservatism over things that they consider sacred. They don't care how Prometheus works as a stand-alone movie. That's why I wouldn't bet much on my own expectations before I'm told more. I made a post recently about how it'll probably be even more of what it already (blade runner/odyssey/indiana jones) and it might add Apocalypto and The Fountain.

After all, there is talk about it being called Paradise, so the last suggestion kinda makes sense.

Anyway I'm not surprised you think the movie failed, concidering you think it's about lack of purpose and not seeing how promising the ending is.

Oh and look at this:



This suggests that there's something in the facehugger concept that's ancient and therefore biotechnological even for the engineers.


@mason yeah it is different and it was needed
can't find it but i guess it's because they just thought the old design was obsolete