House of the Dragon (TV)

All non-Nolan related film, tv, and streaming discussions.
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I'd argue that a more creative writer would have probably find a compelling way to tell the story of this season at least, in a non-linear fashion.

I think if you have this many time jumps in a story where decisions and events have such great consequences for the future, going back and forth, so you can showcase the threads that connect the present with the past, will work as the best method to handle your material.

And you also get to play with contrasts for great dramatic effect. For instance
putting a flashback in which Alicent and Rhaenyra are bonding in a charming moment of friendship, would have worked so much better if it was right after a scene where all signs of affection between them, have been replaced by a deep sense of mistrust and icy glares.

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Totally disagree with Master Virgo. Narrative devices are overused as it is and any movie or tv show that uses them has in my experience not aged exceptionally well.

I tend to think that they are employed to make uninteresting stuff interesting.

Audience does not need back and forth contrast or side by side contrast. We have memory. North remembers.

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I like non-linear storytelling but this here is not an instance where I'd use that approach.

Things are confusing enough as they are with so many different characters and the GOT audience is not used to it so when you show the same characters as kids and adults in the same episode, it'd incredibly difficult to not just make sure the audience knows you're referring to the same characters, but the contexts of their lives are often entirely different. You wouldn't be able to establish that difference if you then also had to constantly move the story forward in the present. Imo it's not enough of a reward.

The way they approached time passing in this season focuses on the main beats of the story (Rhaenyra gets named heir, Viserys marries Alicent, Aegon II is born, Daemon tries to seduce Rhaenyra and she has sex with Ser Criston Cole, Rhaenyra marries Laenor and Criston Cole and Alicent turn against her, the question of the parentage of Rhaenyra's kids is brought up, etc.) and using their time in the epsiodes to flesh out all the important characters. The sense I am getting from this is that these kinds of conflicts build up over generations and over a huge amount of time until one spark sets things off.

The unimaginative way is to never have any time spent on the childhood of these characters and just have all the adult versions deliver boring exposition dumps but that is inelegant and goes against 'show, don't tell' imo. You wouldn't get the same sense of who Viserys was as a king 15 years ago versus now if other characters just told you. The way they did it here you see the difference in that he was at least making decisions beforehand and sitting the throne, whereas he has now just retreated into his work on his model of old Valyria. Also moments like the sense of betrayal that Rhaenyra felt when she found out Alicent was marrying her father cannot be replicated by a line of dialogue, even if delivered by an excellent actor.

Then there is also the question of not being able to see certain characters' point of view. Readers are against Alicent generally because she is who we meet in this episode and she's not very likeable at all here (no matter how right or wrong she is) so the backstory we got in the first 5 episodes makes her so much richer and nuanced and no matter how deftly you write your dialogue, it is never the same as the audience experiencing things at the same time as these characters.

From a thematic point of view, it also makes no sense because with this story you want and need to communicate the loss of peacetime once the Dance starts and since this is a tragedy, the show needs to communicate that something has been lost in the process. Not experiencing peacetime essentially robs the story of its purpose so having 5 episodes that people can fondly look back on despite the scheming once all these characters are actively trying to murder each other is essential imo.

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What a great episode this was. Hell yeah.

Only first six episodes were sent to critics. This epicness was reserved for the audience. Well played HBO. :clap:

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"He'll have to close an eye"...isn't it amazing? Aemond making legit power moves while Aegon is just getting drunk at the wake. Aemond
One-Eye
has arrived, he's gonna be very important during the Dance. What sets the two brothers apart is Aemond's apparent respect for ancient Valyrian customs, while Aegon does not seem to care very much. I'll also say, as much as Aegon is a brat, it was kind of unfair to single him out with regard to
the rumours about Rhaenyra's children
and the way he reacted was kind of funny but mainly because we know the kid doesn't have a clue. What's interesting is that Aemond is the younger son, who paradoxically seems much more serious and angrier than his older brother and who displays fearlessness in a way that Aegon currently does not....I mean
, approaching Vhaegar, the oldest and largest dragon in the world and claiming that beast for himself? That kid has no fear at all.
Olivia Cooke is giving an amazing performance here and there are a bunch of things at work here simultaneously: Alicent is right that it is obvious to everyone that Rhaenyra's children are not Laenor's. She is right to be angry at the fact that her own husband looks the other way when it comes to Rhaenyra's transgressions of the norms of their society and she is right that what she has been asked to do is to sacrifice her freedom and angecy to be Queen and mother to various children and wife to an old man who seems to be falling apart before our very eyes. Yet, her anger is misplaced, as she blames Rhaenyra for her lot in life when she should be directing her ire at her father and her husband, both of which have a very strict idea of what a woman's role in their society should be. Rhaenyra comes across as more sympathetic but only if one ognores how reckless her affair with Ser Harwin is and how dangerous it is for her and her children and ultimately for the stability of the realm should the succession question ever be seriously repoened for debate. Also I wonder whether anyone picked up on the fact that when she says that Aemond should be "questioned sharply" that sounds like a euphemism for intimidating him and potentially torturing him for information. Rhaenyra's problem is ultimately that she flaunts conventions without thinking deeply about the repercussions because as a princess she is used to getting what she wants and doing what she likes (even though, of course, as a woman she is forced to fit into a certain role).

A bunch of things are starting to fall into place, especially in terms of the conflcit between Alicent and Rhaenyra and where Daemon's and Rhaenyra's relationship are concerned.

The conversations all these characters (like Corlys and Rhaenys, Daemon and Rhaenyra, Alicent and Otto) have are wonderful and very revealing about each of them without having the dialogue feel like exposition.

A bunch of nice examples of visual shorthand accomplishing a lot here also (Daemon snickering at the not so subtle shade being thrown at Rhaenyra's kids, Otto adjusting the pin of the Hand of the King, the different factions being represented visually on different sides).

The role Vhagar plays will also be interesting going forward because there's a notable shift in terms of how she behaves and that says something about her and who she considers worthy of being her riders. for context, Balerion was both Aegon I's, Maegor's and Viserys I's dragon and those 3 people could not be more different from each other.

Next episode is likely the final time jump and then we enter the time of the Dance.
Last edited by Batfan175 on October 4th, 2022, 2:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Strong episode...when I could see it. The show is getting heavily criticized for the lighting or lack of it, and it deserves it, frankly. Miguel Sapochnik is a great director and has made some amazing television, but his doubling-down on this creative choice for realistic nighttime cinematography is a poor one. You'd think they learn after the uproar from the "The Long Night" in season 8 of GOT, but I guess not.

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Batfan175 wrote:
October 3rd, 2022, 3:27 pm
Olivia Cooke is giving an amazing performance here and there are a bunch of things at work here simultaneously: Alicent is right that it is obvious to everyone that Rhaenyra's chjildren are not Laenor's. She is right to be angry at the fact that her own husband looks the other way when it coems to Rhaenyra's transgressions of the norms of their society and she is right that what she has been asked to do is to sacrifice her freedom and angecy to be Queen and mother to various children and wife to an old man who seems to be falling apart before our very eyes. yet, her anger is misplaced, as she blames Rhaenyra for her lot in life when she should be directing her ire at her father and her husband, both of which have a very strict idea of what a woman's role in their society should be.
I think the real reason suggested for Alicent's resentment of Rhaenyra, is that in a way the former betrayed her own father by defending the friend she thought was being honest. As the result she was forced to be separated from him, losing the support she needed in court, only to realize later that Rhaenyra was lying to her.

So now the secret affairs of Rhaenyra bothers no one more than Alicent, because it's a reminder of that one time she made a mistake and was played to side against her own family, effectively helping the inevitable executioner of her children.

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This is why Master Virgo is my favorite person on this forum.

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Master Virgo wrote:
October 4th, 2022, 1:23 am
Batfan175 wrote:
October 3rd, 2022, 3:27 pm
Olivia Cooke is giving an amazing performance here and there are a bunch of things at work here simultaneously: Alicent is right that it is obvious to everyone that Rhaenyra's chjildren are not Laenor's. She is right to be angry at the fact that her own husband looks the other way when it coems to Rhaenyra's transgressions of the norms of their society and she is right that what she has been asked to do is to sacrifice her freedom and angecy to be Queen and mother to various children and wife to an old man who seems to be falling apart before our very eyes. yet, her anger is misplaced, as she blames Rhaenyra for her lot in life when she should be directing her ire at her father and her husband, both of which have a very strict idea of what a woman's role in their society should be.
I think the real reason suggested for Alicent's resentment of Rhaenyra, is that in a way the former betrayed her own father by defending the friend she thought was being honest. As the result she was forced to be separated from him, losing the support she needed in court, only to realize later that Rhaenyra was lying to her.

So now the secret affairs of Rhaenyra bothers no one more than Alicent, because it's a reminder of that one time she made a mistake and was played to side against her own family, effectively helping the inevitable executioner of her children.
Yeah that too but by acting the way she does now, Alicent does not make it less likely that Rhaenyra will see her children as a threat to her, especially since Alicent is simultaneously pushing for Aegon to be king when Viserys has made it quite clear that Rhaenyra will remain the heir.
radewart wrote:
October 3rd, 2022, 8:31 pm
Strong episode...when I could see it. The show is getting heavily criticized for the lighting or lack of it, and it deserves it, frankly. Miguel Sapochnik is a great director and has made some amazing television, but his doubling-down on this creative choice for realistic nighttime cinematography is a poor one. You'd think they learn after the uproar from the "The Long Night" in season 8 of GOT, but I guess not.
Eh, I had no problem with it, looked fine to me.

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blackColumn wrote:
October 4th, 2022, 2:47 am
This is why Master Virgo is my favorite person on this forum.
Only because you don't know me well enough.

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