House of the Dragon (TV)

All non-Nolan related film, tv, and streaming discussions.
Posts: 1517
Joined: January 2013
Enjoyed the episode, but the final ten minutes was a little hard to follow along with what was happening through the editing and camera angles, maybe on purpose to show how chaotic the whole fight was...
It almost seemed like Dameon pushed the Joffery guy into Criston's path on the dance floor or I'm seeing things.

This is a little bit nit-picky, but why did none of the other King's guards or other soldiers stop Criston, and why was he just allowed to leave and not taken prisoner?

Posts: 4794
Joined: January 2012
radewart wrote:
September 19th, 2022, 5:32 pm
Enjoyed the episode, but the final ten minutes was a little hard to follow along with what was happening through the editing and camera angles, maybe on purpose to show how chaotic the whole fight was...
It almost seemed like Dameon pushed the Joffery guy into Criston's path on the dance floor or I'm seeing things.

This is a little bit nit-picky, but why did none of the other King's guards or other soldiers stop Criston, and why was he just allowed to leave and not taken prisoner?
The kingsguard have no explanation as to why this even happened in the first place. Noone expected this, least of all from him. Joffrey at one point pulled a dagger so there might be a way for Alicent or someone else to rationalise/justify it by maybe saying that he was just defending himself against someone who was trying to attack him and to make Ser Criston Cole seem less blameless than he actually was. My explanation is he just stormed off and went to the godswood right away without anyone being able to get ahold of him in the confusion.

User avatar
Posts: 674
Joined: August 2019
Princess raped her kingsguard.

MeToo movement was about powerful, typically older men coercing women in junior positions to have sex with them. This was exact thing with genders reversed. She even picked him by for duty with an attraction bias and she was more than willing to keep exploiting him after her marriage.

Apes here will celebrate her greed for throne and sexual exploits. They also approve, in an evergreen manner, her lying to her father, her friend and everyone else.

Posts: 4794
Joined: January 2012
blackColumn wrote:
September 20th, 2022, 6:55 am
Princess raped her kingsguard.

MeToo movement was about powerful, typically older men coercing women in junior positions to have sex with them. This was exact thing with genders reversed. She even picked him by for duty with an attraction bias and she was more than willing to keep exploiting him after her marriage.

Apes here will celebrate her greed for throne and sexual exploits. They also approve, in an evergreen manner, her lying to her father, her friend and everyone else.
I find that there is a good in-depth discussion of that scene from episode 4 on the Ringer-Verse podcast deepdive for episode 4 between 1h35 and 1h42: https://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir ... ce=w_share

Noone supports Rhaenyra lying to her father or to anyone. It's just that, by comparison to whatever horrendous war crimes get committed during the Dance of the Dragons, this pales in comaprison. I'm tired of having to repeat this: every main character in this story does something awful at one point or another. It's up to you as audience members to say where you draw the line.

I'm team smallfolk because they're the ones who are going to suffer the most.

User avatar
Posts: 674
Joined: August 2019
The man seemed in despair and indeed was driven to suicide days later.

Imagine a man hires a female bodyguard. And he calls her in, closes the door behind her and straight up begins to undress her with a smile on his face while the woman stands there lifelessly.

Because the kingsguard was under an oath, that's like a priest selecting a nun supppsed to be chaste and then taking her virginity. Did you think it like that?

User avatar
Posts: 13506
Joined: February 2011
I thought Ser Criston went from a reasonable young man to raging lunatic who genuinely expected Rhaenyra to abandon everything for him, a little too fast.

But the good news is that Olivia Cooke, who is the main reason I'm watching this show, will finally show up in the next episode. So there is that.

Posts: 4794
Joined: January 2012
Master Virgo wrote:
September 20th, 2022, 2:44 pm
I thought Ser Criston went from a reasonable young man to raging lunatic who genuinely expected Rhaenyra to abandon everything for him, a little too fast.

But the good news is that Olivia Cooke, who is the main reason I'm watching this show, will finally show up in the next episode. So there is that.
I mean,
he did offer Rhaenyra to kill Lord Jason Lannister in episode 3....maybe the fact that he thought that was a funny idea should have been a red flag to some people. Also, maybe Rhaenyra should not have chosen a kingsguard whose only skill she cared about was that he was good at killing things...Even in episode 4 after they had sex, he can barely look her in the eye because he feels guilty about what he did.

Being a kingsguard is the highest honour his House has ever known and he knows that he ruined it so it's a big deal in his eyes, so much so that it would mean death if someone found out about it. He also knows that there is no way of undoing what he did and hence there is no way to help him and he has to live with who he is now and he had a different conception of himself. Ultimately, it's not about Rhaenyra, it's about himself and how he feels about himself and his honour. The moment he comes up with the proposal he is thinking of her as a means through which he hopes he will be able to restore his lost honour but that means she has to sacrifice everything and potentially plunge the kingdom into a bloody war of succession, not to mention disregard what she knows about the Prince Who Was Promised and what she believes to be her duty to the realm. For what? So that Criston Cole can feel better about himself knowing that he is a weak man who broke his vow of chastity (granted in an impossible situation but still)?

When Joffrey Lonmouth talks to him he's barely aware of his presence and he barely registers what he's saying at first....because the only thing he thinks about during the episode and arguably the end of the previous episode is the transgression against his oath and his sullied honour and that came across beautifully. He even confessed what he did to Alicent without her even suspecting him of having had sex with the princess.

Criston Cole has been adequately described by the actor playing him as a thug. It's just that for 4 episodes he had no reason to show us that side of him because things didn't go really badly for him until this point...it's easier to be a good person when things are looking up for you.
Also I'm just gonna say it: Daario Naharis handled rejection way better than Ser "I Have Honour" over here LOL.

User avatar
Posts: 674
Joined: August 2019
Batfan175 wrote:
September 20th, 2022, 5:08 pm

Also I'm just gonna say it: Daario Naharis handled rejection way better than Ser "I Have Honour" over here LOL.
That's because he had none :lol:

Posts: 87
Joined: October 2019
Didn’t like that episode. It was cheesy all around.

Posts: 4794
Joined: January 2012
Episode 6 was awesome for a number of reasons imo.

First, it cements the fact that this is an intergenerational conflict we're heading into. We get to see all the Targaryen(?) kids running around, which is important because they'll have a lot to do in this story later on. All the kid actors are doing a great job, especially the actors for Aegon, Aemond, Helaena and Jacaerys. You also get a sense that these kids would be fine and be friends if the grown-ups didn't project their hatred onto them.

We also finally we get to see the original actors (yes, they were cast first) for Rhaenyra and Alicent and both are doing a wonderful job portraying people who changed over the course of this decade, Olivia Cooke portraying Alicent as an anxious, bitter and severe person whose rationalisation seems to be that she stands for decency and virtue in the face of what she deems queer Targaryen customs (note how the tapestries in her room have changed to something rather more conservative) and positioning herself in opposition to the once freedom-loving Rhaenyra in particular. Speaking of which, I actually prefer adult Rhaenyra to her previous incarnation on the show so far (and I thought the previous actress did an excellent job), mainly because she is dealing with a different set of issues and seems a bit more world weary and more conscious of her own responsibilities, though of course one should not forget that the main conflict of this particular episode is mainly one of her own making, due to some questionable decisions she made that put everyone else in a difficult spot.

I also appreciate the subtle acting from the actors for minor roles like Laena (that particular scene between her and her dragon Vhaegar, the largest living dragon in the world at this point, is particularly heartwrenching) and Ser Harwin Strong (the scenes where he meets Joffrey and where he observes the training of the kids in the yard especially showcase the actor's range), neither of which have an expanded role in the original story (though Rhaenyra and Laena are good friends in the book) but whose presence is necessary for the story regardless.

You really get a sense of how much time has passed and how much resentment has built up over the course of 10 years. Of course there are some questions like how Ser Criston Cole could turn out to be such an asshole who still has his job (though I suppose if the Queen saves you from getting fired and executed I guess a dirtbag like him you would hold a grudge for this long) but then again his combat experience was razing a tower, hence not especially honourable so red flags were kind of there for those who pick up on fine details. An interesting visualisation of the conflict emerges in the training scene where Alicent's sons (all in green) and Rhaenyra's kids (all in red) are being pushed by the adults in their lives to be as vicious as possible to each other when there are indicators that they would not be this antagonistic otherwise (the Pink Dread seems to have been a collective effort on their part). Another scene feeding into this is Alicent walking in on Aegon as he tries to imitate Homelander from The Boys. Not only does she sound like her father but she's ten times as aggressive about it. If she's still wondering why Aegon is not as responsible as she'd hoped maybe she should try being a more responsible parent and see to his education. he also at this stage does not seem to want the throne and might be happy leaving these things to people who are interested in this sort of thing like Rhaenyra.

From a filmmaking perspective, I especially appreciate the 2 successive long takes in the episode, as they capture the reactions of people to Rhaenyra and her child in real-time quite well and we get much more of a sense of time and space just in general. It also provides Laenor with an opportunity to showcase how supportive he is, whilst still underestimating Rhaenyra's struggles (I have no doubt a lance through the shoulder is painful but giving birth is something he does not experience), struggles which we know she had hoped not to have to face ever. Also, if you think these are the last births in the story you are mistaken LOL.

Bonding with dragons is a big theme of the episode as well and permeates all the different storylines, whith Aemond and Rhaena discovering how certain members of their families feel about the fact that they have not yet bonded with a dragon and how that makes them feel about themselves. This will come into play soon.

The writing was also especially strong (heh) in this episode, in particular because we don't usually get speeches with montages that often and that particular one at the end was deliciously creepy and nihilistic. I appreciate also how Alicent's fraction is currently composed of men without scruples, which makes it harder for her to maintain her facade of decency and righteousness, adding to her psychological stress in the process.

Which brings me to the necessity of having the 5 previous episodes in the first place. Had we not had a deeper look into all these characters beforehand, it would be difficult to get a grasp on them and to get people to see things from their perspectives at this point in time because Rhaenyra is having to pretend even in discussions with her husband that things are different from the way they actually are, while Alicent comes off as obsessed and antagonistic to the extreme, making her less sympathetic than she was previously. Daemon is not behaving like the rogue we know him to be and Viserys is not really making any big decisions as king so having all that background enrichens the characters immensely.

I could say more about all the thematic underpinnings and details but I'll keep it short. It's no easy thing jumping ahead that much in time in a story like this and the episode acquitted itself admirably, making our current main characters (Daemon, Viserys, Alicent, Rhaenyra) into more nuanced and multilayered creations that are fascinating and intriguing to discuss and think about.

Post Reply