This is a story about flawed people doing occasionally good and terrible things. That might make it more difficult to find a less unambiguously good person to latch onto and to root for (though currently they are doing a good job imo of making us care for Rhaenyra) but it also means that the characters feel more like real people populating a fantasy setting than fantasy cliché characters playing out fantasy tropes.
Trust me, it is not as refreshing as it once was. It's more like an unwritten rule at this point -- characters that could swing either way. The unpredictability etc serves well to hold the interest but how it ages will remain to be seen.
Personally I think the show is uniquely marvellous. It appeases the existing fanbase in so many overt and subtle ways while telling a decent story. It checks off so many boxes that you feel it has almost -- like -- a sense of responsibilty and end result is quite good. In doing that it sacrifices pure storytelling that organically unfolds on its own but for that you need a single vision and not one that somehow aligns with various liabilities that the studio has. It can feel like an investment to keen watchers who know how the studio dynamics work but it is not very offputting, which is something I count as an achievement.
Trust me, it is not as refreshing as it once was. It's more like an unwritten rule at this point -- characters that could swing either way. The unpredictability etc serves well to hold the interest but how it ages will remain to be seen.
Personally I think the show is uniquely marvellous. It appeases the existing fanbase in so many overt and subtle ways while telling a decent story. It checks off so many boxes that you feel it has almost -- like -- a sense of responsibilty and end result is quite good. In doing that it sacrifices pure storytelling that organically unfolds on its own but for that you need a single vision and not one that somehow aligns with various liabilities that the studio has. It can feel like an investment to keen watchers who know how the studio dynamics work but it is not very offputting, which is something I count as an achievement.
Sapochnik has been immersed in this world since season 5 of GOT and the now sole remaining showrunner has known GRRM for a decade and when he talks about ASOIAF in interviews you get the sense that the guy knows his stuff.
This show also rewards repeat viewing so far imo. I've spotted at least one moment that will likely come full circle but only at the very end of the story...and we're only on episode 2 LOL.
OK, fair enough. Just saying that the show, right now, is too much about a bunch of old politicians talking and talking about the same damn thing.
And the younger main characters are just not that interesting to carry all this. Like comparing to GoT, in a combination of storytelling and casting, Arya, Jon, Tyrion and Dany made me care about their journey very early on. Each could have been a lead character of a full novel or movie. There is no such thing happening here.
It's like going from Luke/Han/Leia to Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan/etc. And most of us eventually grew to love the new Obi-Wan, but he was a bland co-lead for an entire film, and that never needed to be the case.
I could say why we get all these politicians talking about stuff that is important to them but that would spoil part of the fun imo. The various disappointments of these characters will definitely lead somewhere but that means that you have to first show why they are upset in the first place. In a sense, the first episode of this story is the Targaryens at their height and it's all downhill from here for them.
Having all the Stark kids who discover the world of ASOIAF at the same time as the audience definitely helps and part of that is linked to the fact that ASOIAF is written as a story from the various POVs of the characters, whereas Fire and Blood is an account of fictional events by people who weren't there and so you don't get Viserys' or Rhaenyra's or Alicent's thoughts. The show has to build all that up but all that takes time as well.
Imo characters like Rhaenyra, Otto, Alicent, Corlys, Daemon, Viserys are compelling enough to keep me invested. They are not bland characters at all but the characterisiation feels a bit subtler, which is why rewatching the episodes helps. At first glance you might think that Rhaenys, for instance, is envious of Rhaenyra but a second glance at their scene together reveals potentially that she's just trying to get her to realise the harshness of the reality they're both living in and what the implications are. But then, of course, you cannot really be sure at the moment either. There's something intriguing, for instance, about a guy who can be vicious and ruthless but who is also such a drama queen that he pretends to get married and to have a kid and steals a dragon egg just to effectively say 'pay attention to me'. A guy who respects nothing and yet will not allow others to insult the members of his family who he's not on the best of terms with at the moment.
I get what both Batfan175 and Master Virgo are saying. As someone who has read the lore, I am extremely invested and loving this, but non-readers are getting to know these characters for the first time and may not be enjoying this family drama as much as they expected.
TBH, even Game of Thrones season 1 was tough for newbies. I remember telling my friends to watch the entire season before judging and by the 8th, 9th and 10th episodes, they were totally hooked. Hopefully, this show can do the same.
Shows about to have a bunch of long period time jumps. It may be a little jarring to certain audiences, some of the more negative reviews on sites were a bit critical of it.
Should be interesting to see how the showrunners handle it.....next episode is 3 years later.
Shows about to have a bunch of long period time jumps. It may be a little jarring to certain audiences, some of the more negative reviews on sites were a bit critical of it.
Should be interesting to see how the showrunners handle it.....next episode is 3 years later.
Dude, we know. That's why Rhaenyra and Alicent and the 2 children of Corlys and Rhaenys will be played by older actors at some point. The first season is going to cover about 28 years because that's how long it takes for the Dance of the Dragons to actually start. This is closer to The Crown than it is to the original GOT, which almost never had any time jumps.
I'm just saying some will be fine with it, others who liked the first two episodes and have connected to actors like Milly Alcott may struggle with the time jump and the cast change so soon mid-season, unlike "The Crown" which generally has the same cast for a whole season or two.
Wow, they made Viserys such an intriguing character. In the book he was barely an entity and here we get all these layers to him. This is exactly what we mean when we say the adaptation can add nuance to these characters.
Rhaenyra is very empathetic and relatable and her scenes with Ser Criston Cole add a lot of perspective to her plight because, while she is indeed trapped in her situation, she has it still a lot better than a lot of women in the world of ASOIAF and let's also keep in mind the moment of violent anger where she vents her frustrations going forward...it might say something about her.
It's also good to see a lot of new players make their debut in the background in this episode (
see: Aegon and the Lannister twins
). Lord Strong, whilst being a sexist pig in episode 1, seems to actually consistently be giving Viserys advice that does not directly benefit himself, which is an admirable trait to have in this story. Also interesting to see what impact Otto's relationship with his own brother seems to have on his own stances and actions.
As for Daemon, what a man of contradictions that guy is. He clearly would want to have a good relationship with his brother but will also not accept his help if it casts him in a bad light or implies that he failed at a task he set for himself...so he comes up with an insane plan just to show Viserys that he can succeed without him. I'm pretty sure what he did at the end there would not be permitted under humanitarian law though.
I kind of figured that the Crabfeeder would not make it, since external enemies in this story are more meant to be a distraction from the fact that the Dance of the Dragons will soon begin and that there it's the Targaryens who'll be inflicting pain and suffering on each other.
I think my main issue with this show is that it feels like we've seen most of this in GoT.
Royal women who are undermined and suppressed in the court and treated as political tools, continuously harboring that anger and frustration internally and you start to see the cruelty that is building up in their hearts. We had Dany and Cersei. We saw these exact journeys unfolded. Same elements existed in other character as well.
A violent and unpredictable brat prince who feels betrayed and is going around demanding his "rightful place". We had Ramsey and Euron already.
Weak and indecisive leaders trying to balance their family and their duties, failing miserably at both (Robert and Stannis). Cunning politicians born into disadvantage, looking for their own gains and pulling themselves up in the world sacrificing anyone close to them in the process. (Littlefinger among many others)
As a result you feel like you know exactly where these characters are headed, and the path that they are on, is not as engaging to follow.
I'm not suggesting that they should just retire a certain type of character and yes history repeats itself and all that, but if you really didn't have much of a new story to tell with characters different enough to stand on their own, then what is the point of a whole new show?
but if you really didn't have much of a new story to tell with characters different enough to stand on their own, then what is the point of a whole new show?
That's like asking why Chris Nolan made 3 batman movies.
Not really. You can create many stories centered on a character or a type of character as long as you have new arcs and different directions to take them on.
A good sequel (or any kind of follow-up) helps evolve the characters, introduces new interesting elements and themes to its predecessors and then perhaps the filmmaking itself has to adapt to these changes. You have to use different kinds of shots, the music has to go a different route, etc. It's not obsessed with repeating a model, it's concerned with moving things forward and opening up new horizons.
A bad follow-up (Even if not necessarily a bad movie or series) lingers on the past achievements. Old characters remain in stillness and repetition and new characters are modeled after what has been tried and worked. Using filmamking tools even to achieve this. Introducing a character from an angle where she might look like an iconic character that the audience recognize. Overusing a theme that was used for her before, now for the new one.
Clearly it's rash to label this show, of the latter kind already with just 3 episodes in, but it is alarmingly starting to feel like it might be moving towards that way.
