2018-2019 Awards Season

All non-Nolan related film, tv, and streaming discussions.
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Ruth wrote:
February 25th, 2019, 8:02 am
Oku wrote:
February 25th, 2019, 5:56 am
Vader182 wrote:
February 25th, 2019, 2:27 am
I'm sorry (actually I'm not), but if you don't see the toxic and prejudicial presentation of race in Green Book check your biases.


-Vader
Sanchez is not American.
Europe is just as racist and xenophobic. I know that’s a hard one to swallow. Of course, the history and contexts are different, but too many European people are acting as if racism is this new concept they only heard of yesterday


I’m honestly really curious to go see Green Book and check for myself, as I haven’t yet seen it, and see if as someone who’s also European I’d be able to catch what’s wrong with that lol.
When it comes to racism, I think it's important to understand that Europe and USA have very different models, although some european countries like UK have the american model. I don't know how it is in your country, but I will develop the example of France, that I know to be quite the opposite of the american way.
In France, since 1905, and a very important law, the people in France, whether black or white, muslim or catholic are all french and that's it. They're nothing less, nothing more. In the public life, that is to say. In their private life, they are entirely free to be whatever want, and to show or not attachement to their culture. It is for example forbidden in France to ask in a pool or i a registration form if someone is caucasian, black... The notion of affirmative action (though developping under the influence of USA) is still very much frowned upon. It is slowly being developped for people with a handicap or gender issues, but not at all for black or muslim.
The consequences of this are for the positive ones that the society is much less dual, and that the whites don't end up voting for a white power douchebag (in France at least, and for the moment at least), the negative one is that never has a black or muslim person been in a position to be elected president nor is to be in the next 10-20 years, whereas America whilst having a lot of unshamed racists also elected Obama twice, and the new House of representatives is very diversed (at least on one side).
When it comes to film, if you end up on a french forum, you'll see lots of critcs about BP winning production design and less about GB winning best picture, and that's why.
Also Europe doesn't have the same history as the USA; sure there was colonization but it didn't happen in Europe, it was in Asia and in Africa; the big difference is that when African-americans were chained to America, the immigrants in Europe chose for the vast majority to come.
I'm not saying Europe is better or worse, I'm just tryong to explain that Europe has a different history, and therefore the very definition of racism is very different. Not to use the n-word, is something that in France is almost impossible to understand other than as a restriction of freedom of speech. The history of the word is not understood.

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Ruth wrote:
February 25th, 2019, 8:02 am
Europe is just as racist and xenophobic. I know that’s a hard one to swallow. Of course, the history and contexts are different, but too many European people are acting as if racism is this new concept they only heard of yesterday
Europe has its own issues and there's an unfortunate and quite shocking rise in both nationalism and racism in recent years.

But racism looks different around here. First of all, it's mostly directed at Muslims in Europe (and that's a bigger story to unpack for a different time), not black people. There are issues at football stadiums where black players get bananas thrown at them and it's disgraceful but it's something we associate with football hooligans (real human scum) and it's a far cry from the norm. The hooligans and neo-nazis are our version of extreme racism in America, like your KKK or... well, your neo-nazis.

As for the so called "causal racism", historically we don't really recognize many of the things Americans consider racism. For instance, wearing blackface on TV and in some countries during certain events is totally normal around here and is not considered racist because we don't have the same concept of blackface as in America. Or something more relating to Green Book - fried chicken. In Europe we really don't have the correlation between that or watermelons and black people. I know it from TV and films but it's not something people notice around here. There's definitely more and more and more differences. So I can also see that a movie like this plays better in Europe than in US nowadays where people aren't so focused on implied American racism.

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prowlercomesaround wrote:
February 25th, 2019, 8:47 am
LelekPL wrote:
February 25th, 2019, 8:43 am
For instance, wearing blackface on TV and in some countries during certain events is totally normal around here and is not considered racist because we don't have the same concept of blackface as in America.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... ace-for-tv
Well, different TV stations have their own rules what's controversial since they might broadcast to countries around the world. But I don't think the general public understands the controversy.

In other news... this is one of the most popular TV shows in Poland and in many countries they have their own version of this show:


Oh, and she won the whole show.
Last edited by LelekPL on February 25th, 2019, 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Dobson wrote:
February 25th, 2019, 7:40 am
I haven't watched Bohemian Rapsody but the editing in that clip is seizure inducing. Apparently the whole movie is like that. How did this win???

https://twitter.com/pramitheus/status/1 ... 0071514112
Haven't watched either and oh my God, what the heck was that?? And the dialogue?!? :?

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Demoph, that is absolutely valid and even I said the history and context is different. It doesn’t, however, negate my initial point and I still stand by it. We’re different than Americans, but we’re still racist, xenophobic and colorist.

I think it’s all fine if there are complexities you as an European don’t understand mainly because you’ve never been able to experience them first hand. I don’t! As an European, the only way I’ve come to have at least some kind of knowledge about racism in America, is because I spent hours reading upon American history. I just naturally gravitated towards trying to understand what’s what, but there’s still so much I don’t “get”, and possibly may never get. We barely touched upon that in high school. It was all like “uhuh ya slavery sucks” and that’s it. Where I live people unapologetically call black people monkeys, hard r n words and intellectually inferior. Sure, obligatory #notall, that would insane, but it happens, and it especially happens in everyday type of conversations whenever you start talking racism. People do blackface on television repeatedly and then go all “but we’re not americans!!!” when confronted with dialogue on why this wasn’t a good idea. The way I see it, I can personally understand ignorance that has no malice in it because you simply can’t understand and immediately know everything, and that includes different perceptions of racism that vary country to country. But if you make no conscious effort at all to educate yourself about things that go beyond your experiences, and conveniently revert back to your “muh europe” excuse whenever you’re confronted with a problematic topic, I say.... fuck off man. At that point I think you know something’s wrong, you just choose to ignore that.

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LelekPL wrote:
February 25th, 2019, 8:53 am
prowlercomesaround wrote:
February 25th, 2019, 8:47 am
LelekPL wrote:
February 25th, 2019, 8:43 am
For instance, wearing blackface on TV and in some countries during certain events is totally normal around here and is not considered racist because we don't have the same concept of blackface as in America.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... ace-for-tv
Well, different TV stations have their own rules what's controversial since they might broadcast to countries around the world. But I don't think the general public understands the controversy.

In other news... this is one of the most popular TV shows in Poland and in many countries they have their own version of this show:


Oh, and she won the whole show.
Seriously, I've never seen this :P

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Demoph wrote:
February 25th, 2019, 8:34 am
Not to use the n-word, is something that in France is almost impossible to understand other than as a restriction of freedom of speech. The history of the word is not understood.
Oh yeah that's another one. In Poland people also don't have the same concept of a complete restriction of one word, even when discussing it. Sure, there are slurs used for various minorities but they are not banned from public debate like the "n-word" is.
Demoph wrote:
February 25th, 2019, 8:34 am
When it comes to film, if you end up on a french forum, you'll see lots of critcs about BP winning production design and less about GB winning best picture, and that's why.
Same thing in Poland. Black Panther is really disliked around here. I've seen comments like "that's not what Africa looks like" but as funny as they are, they're in the minority. I think most people are just shocked how popular it is in America since here, the movie is considered very mediocre and most people tend to think that the ONLY reason it gets so much praise in the US is because of the "woke" culture. As we don't really get into the anti-collonialism nature of the film and the slavery subtext. I think Green Book is a much easier film for Europeans since it "explains" the racism in the film, while Black Panther isn't so on the nose and people might be lost because of it.

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I still have to see Green Book, If Beale Street Could Talk and The Favourite lol

Anyway

A pity Close didn't win although I'm sure Colman more than deserves it too.

Great for Malek! I also haven't seen Vice yet but I figured it would've went to Bale. Still though, Malek's performance was incredible. He's such a versatile actor. The other great performance of him was in Papillon, he truly is a chameleon. I hope he and Nolan will work together sooner rather than later.

Great that First Man won VFX, one of the few I got right lol

Lovely that Cuarón won Cinematography and Directing and that Roma won Foreign Language Film (obviously should've been BP and Cold War foreign language film)

I feel a bit meh on the Best Editing, Score, Production Design and Costume Design wins.
I mean, Hurwitz should've won for his First Man score but he wasn't even fucking nominated lol so I immediately couldn't care less which film would win. I honestly also only remember the talking drum from black panthers soundtrack. I've literally not seen any of the other costume design nominated films so idk about that.

Those production design and editing awards should've went to different films, too.

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Vader182 wrote:
February 25th, 2019, 2:27 am
Sanchez wrote:
February 25th, 2019, 2:15 am
Holy shit, reddit is actually imploding over the fact that Green Book won.

I thought it was well deserved. Had Roma as my favorite but Cuaron won 3 so I can't really complain, although it should have gotten a few more technical awards imo.

And hey, could it be that Green Book won simply because it was a great movie? Why does it have to portray racism in a 'correct' way or whatever to deserve the win?
I'm sorry (actually I'm not), but if you don't see the toxic and prejudicial presentation of race in Green Book check your biases.


-Vader
If that isn't a narrow-minded view I don't know what is.

First of all, I liked most of the BP nominations and would have been equally as glad if BlacKkKlansman won. They're both two of my favorite movies of the year, but not because of how they tackle race issues, but because they're enjoyable, funny movies featuring some great performances.

I'm sick of this bullshit claim that the movies that are up for the big awards need to be somehow culturally or politically relevant to deserve to win. The movie industry is an entertainment business. If some movie makers want to use that platform to say something important that's great. But the Oscars has pretty much evolved into being one big spokesperson for what's wrong in the world. That would have been fine too, if it didn't totally overshadow the actual celebration of cinema.

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