Here's the thing: this is a superhero/comicbook movie that is a slow-paced, R-rated character study (no matter whether you think it is superficial or even good) without tons of CG explosions or even a happy ending...none of these things are what the general moviegoing public associates with comicbook/superhero films at all so to many people watching the film this seems new and potentially a bit more mature for the genre it operates in. People are not used to this kind of storytelling from films that deal with DC or Marvel characters and I think if people in the future try to do more character studies without big explosions and lots of CG effects acting as substitutes for character and theme that can potentially be a good thing, no?
Here's the thing: this is a superhero/comicbook movie that is a slow-paced, R-rated character study (no matter whether you think it is superficial or even good) without tons of CG explosions or even a happy ending...none of these things are what the general moviegoing public associates with comicbook/superhero films at all so to many people watching the film this seems new and potentially a bit more mature for the genre it operates in. People are not used to this kind of storytelling from films that deal with DC or Marvel characters and I think if people in the future try to do more character studies without big explosions and lots of CG effects acting as substitutes for character and theme that can potentially be a good thing, no?
But have our standards been lowered this far? If a typical MCU CBM is 1 maturity on a scale from 1 to 10 (which I don’t think it is), this is just a 2 or 3. The Godfather was once the highest grossing film of all-time. It’s sad how the popular taste (if one exists at all) has gone down.
And the CBM thing isn’t just a package, it runs deep into the story. The Phillips “let’s make a real movie in the guise of a CBM” anecdotes are bullshit.
Here's the thing: this is a superhero/comicbook movie that is a slow-paced, R-rated character study (no matter whether you think it is superficial or even good) without tons of CG explosions or even a happy ending...none of these things are what the general moviegoing public associates with comicbook/superhero films at all so to many people watching the film this seems new and potentially a bit more mature for the genre it operates in. People are not used to this kind of storytelling from films that deal with DC or Marvel characters and I think if people in the future try to do more character studies without big explosions and lots of CG effects acting as substitutes for character and theme that can potentially be a good thing, no?
But have our standards been lowered this far? If a typical MCU CBM is 1 maturity on a scale from 1 to 10 (which I don’t think it is), this is just a 2 or 3. The Godfather was once the highest grossing film of all-time. It’s sad how the popular taste (if one exists at all) has gone down.
And the CBM thing isn’t just a package, it runs deep into the story. The Phillips “let’s make a real movie in the guise of a CBM” anecdotes are bullshit.
What people associate with CBM is the stuff that's most visible and that's the MCU, whose level of maturity (and I'm going to be in the minority on this) is on par with a Saturday morning cartoon tv show. That's what most people go to see with their kids and that's what everyone nowadays understands is what a superhero movie is and should be.
I agree that Joker (2019) is not more insightful or mature than similar films in other genres, far from it. but for this genre it is because most of the rest operates at a level of maturity that is not aiming very high just in general at this point. The Dark Knight trilogy and films like Spiderman 2 and Logan aside, CBMs nowadays are disposable, colourful fluff most of the time and operate like low-stakes, serialized tv, thanks to the MCU.
Getting a break from that happy-go-lucky superficiality felt refreshing in a way to me personally, though I can see why others might not find this particular film very sophisticated or deep at all, given that outside of the genre there are so many other depressing films that deal with mental illness, violence and all these other topics in better ways and which people should definitely seek out. But yeah, I would rather superhero films grew up a little and didn't let the need to refer to the source material or to set up sequels prevent them from telling more mature and compelling stories.
Here's the thing: this is a superhero/comicbook movie that is a slow-paced, R-rated character study (no matter whether you think it is superficial or even good) without tons of CG explosions or even a happy ending...none of these things are what the general moviegoing public associates with comicbook/superhero films at all so to many people watching the film this seems new and potentially a bit more mature for the genre it operates in. People are not used to this kind of storytelling from films that deal with DC or Marvel characters and I think if people in the future try to do more character studies without big explosions and lots of CG effects acting as substitutes for character and theme that can potentially be a good thing, no?
But have our standards been lowered this far? If a typical MCU CBM is 1 maturity on a scale from 1 to 10 (which I don’t think it is), this is just a 2 or 3. The Godfather was once the highest grossing film of all-time. It’s sad how the popular taste (if one exists at all) has gone down.
And the CBM thing isn’t just a package, it runs deep into the story. The Phillips “let’s make a real movie in the guise of a CBM” anecdotes are bullshit.
What people associate with CBM is the stuff that's most visible and that's the MCU, whose level of maturity (and I'm going to be in the minority on this) is on par with a Saturday morning cartoon tv show. That's what most people go to see with their kids and that's what everyone nowadays understands is what a superhero movie is and should be.
I agree that Joker (2019) is not more insightful or mature than similar films in other genres, far from it. but for this genre it is because most of the rest operates at a level of maturity that is not aiming very high just in general at this point. The Dark Knight trilogy and films like Spiderman 2 and Logan aside, CBMs nowadays are disposable, colourful fluff most of the time and operate like low-stakes, serialized tv, thanks to the MCU.
Getting a break from that happy-go-lucky superficiality felt refreshing in a way to me personally, though I can see why others might not find this particular film very sophisticated or deep at all, given that outside of the genre there are so many other depressing films that deal with mental illness, violence and all these other topics in better ways and which people should definitely seek out. But yeah, I would rather superhero films grew up a little and didn't let the need to refer to the source material or to set up sequels prevent them from telling more mature and compelling stories.
I think most people would agree with you, and so do I. But what I’m saying is we should aspire to raise our standards way higher – in an ideal world, general audiences would embrace You Were Never Really Here. Heck I can even twist it into saying it’s sad that the film's that being embraced right now is Joker, arguably a watered down version of YWNRH.
I think most people would agree with you, and so do I. But what I’m saying is we should aspire to raise our standards way higher – in an ideal world, general audiences would embrace You Were Never Really Here. Heck I can even twist it into saying it’s sad that the film's that being embraced right now is Joker, arguably a watered down version of YWNRH.
Here's the thing: this is a superhero/comicbook movie that is a slow-paced, R-rated character study (no matter whether you think it is superficial or even good) without tons of CG explosions or even a happy ending...none of these things are what the general moviegoing public associates with comicbook/superhero films at all so to many people watching the film this seems new and potentially a bit more mature for the genre it operates in. People are not used to this kind of storytelling from films that deal with DC or Marvel characters and I think if people in the future try to do more character studies without big explosions and lots of CG effects acting as substitutes for character and theme that can potentially be a good thing, no?
Nah, the best two movies of the past 5 years are arguably Dunkirk and Fury Road. PG-13: check, fast paced: check, big explosions: check, very little in the way of character study: check, happy endings for the most part: check.
A film doesn't automatically become interesting by the virtue of being edgy R-rated grim looking slow burn. The only question is, is it great cinema or is it not? That's the only metric that matters.
