Joker (2019)
Marc Maron Responds to ‘Joker’ Director’s Comedy Comments: “Maybe You’re Just Insensitive”
There’s plenty of people being funny right now. Not only being funny but being really fucking funny. There are still lines to be rode. If you like to ride a line, you can still ride a line. If you want to take chances, you can still take chances. Really, the only thing that’s off the table, culturally, at this juncture –and not even entirely– is shamelessly punching down for the sheer joy of hurting people. For the sheer excitement and laughter that some people get from causing people pain, from making people uncomfortable, from making people feel excluded. Y’know, that excitement.
As I’ve said before, it’s no excuse. If you’re too intimidated to try to do comedy that is deep or provocative, or even a little controversial, without hurting people, then you’re not good at what you do. Or maybe you’re just insensitive.
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Are you comparing Joker to those shitty teen Netflix movies? Im just saying there is obvious bias especially considering we know certain directors political views. So by disclosing the directors name, those opinions would be more neutral.Artemis wrote: ↑October 7th, 2019, 7:59 amAre you telling me if those shitty teen Netflix movies I've been watching told me that Nolan directed it I would love them?mnasyriq wrote: ↑October 7th, 2019, 4:23 amSometimes I wonder if the director's name is disclosed, would people's opinion on the movie change? That would definitely remove the bias comments of today's media. I'm pretty sure if you had put Nolan's name as the director, everyone here would be calling it a masterpiece.
I mean, Joker kind of is a shitty teen film already tbh.mnasyriq wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 1:30 amAre you comparing Joker to those shitty teen Netflix movies? Im just saying there is obvious bias especially considering we know certain directors political views. So by disclosing the directors name, those opinions would be more neutral.Artemis wrote: ↑October 7th, 2019, 7:59 amAre you telling me if those shitty teen Netflix movies I've been watching told me that Nolan directed it I would love them?mnasyriq wrote: ↑October 7th, 2019, 4:23 amSometimes I wonder if the director's name is disclosed, would people's opinion on the movie change? That would definitely remove the bias comments of today's media. I'm pretty sure if you had put Nolan's name as the director, everyone here would be calling it a masterpiece.
I have mixed feelings after watching it. Some elements of the film are great, even spectacular (especially Phoenix, who gives it his best... sometimes maybe too much, too theatrical), but I have no idea what the director wanted to say with this film. I know what he wanted to present, and this is a sad story of a twisted man in a twisted "society", but there's no meaning behind what he wanted to say with that. That's why the film appears empty in this department.
I liked the score, but I'm not a fan of the cinematography. The music might not be great to listen to outside the film, on your phone, it's not that type of score, but it works very well within the movie. Besides that all the songs are also nicely chosen to accompany the film's key moments.
As for the visuals, I thought it was "cheating" with slow motion. It picked shots in the film and made them grander by applying slo-mo instead of making them thematically grand and give them a moment to breath. It unfortunately reminded me of Zack Snyder's terrible habits of self-seriousness. I also didn't like the color palette for this.
The film's climax is great, though predictable. Finally we got a semblance of a Joker character in the end, being despicable as he should be. And they tried to insert some kind of message about society, but it is as banal as Arthur's self-pity and as warped as his sense of what's good.
What I really enjoyed the most is the film's unreliability. Both Joker, his mother, maybe Wayne and the film itself often don't tell us the whole truth, or simply lie and you have to decide for yourself what is truth and what is not. It doesn't always work (like with Zaze Beetz's character, which are obvious), but when it does it keeps you guessing and it is a sort of film that requires a couple of rewatches.
The pace of the film is not great. The first half drags when we spend so much time with Arthur and trying to make us feel pity for him. I thought it would amp up after the first murder but it also lingered a bit too long.
However, overall this is an interesting experiment as a whole and I would like more bold takes from comic book movies. Not exactly like Joker, but ones that play with different genres and ideas for new versions of famous characters. This is no Logan but it has the same good aspirations behind it. If you skipped the self-seriousness and gave it thematic depth this would have been a masterpiece.
I think I'll rate it 7/10, although I might lower the score or maybe go a bit higher if I sleep on it.
PS. I will not compare Phoenix to Nicholson or Ledger, because they actually played Joker. Phoenix plays Arthur Fleck.
I liked the score, but I'm not a fan of the cinematography. The music might not be great to listen to outside the film, on your phone, it's not that type of score, but it works very well within the movie. Besides that all the songs are also nicely chosen to accompany the film's key moments.
As for the visuals, I thought it was "cheating" with slow motion. It picked shots in the film and made them grander by applying slo-mo instead of making them thematically grand and give them a moment to breath. It unfortunately reminded me of Zack Snyder's terrible habits of self-seriousness. I also didn't like the color palette for this.
The film's climax is great, though predictable. Finally we got a semblance of a Joker character in the end, being despicable as he should be. And they tried to insert some kind of message about society, but it is as banal as Arthur's self-pity and as warped as his sense of what's good.
What I really enjoyed the most is the film's unreliability. Both Joker, his mother, maybe Wayne and the film itself often don't tell us the whole truth, or simply lie and you have to decide for yourself what is truth and what is not. It doesn't always work (like with Zaze Beetz's character, which are obvious), but when it does it keeps you guessing and it is a sort of film that requires a couple of rewatches.
The pace of the film is not great. The first half drags when we spend so much time with Arthur and trying to make us feel pity for him. I thought it would amp up after the first murder but it also lingered a bit too long.
However, overall this is an interesting experiment as a whole and I would like more bold takes from comic book movies. Not exactly like Joker, but ones that play with different genres and ideas for new versions of famous characters. This is no Logan but it has the same good aspirations behind it. If you skipped the self-seriousness and gave it thematic depth this would have been a masterpiece.
I think I'll rate it 7/10, although I might lower the score or maybe go a bit higher if I sleep on it.
PS. I will not compare Phoenix to Nicholson or Ledger, because they actually played Joker. Phoenix plays Arthur Fleck.
Good review.LelekPL wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 3:05 amI have mixed feelings after watching it. Some elements of the film are great, even spectacular (especially Phoenix, who gives it his best... sometimes maybe too much, too theatrical), but I have no idea what the director wanted to say with this film. I know what he wanted to present, and this is a sad story of a twisted man in a twisted "society", but there's no meaning behind what he wanted to say with that. That's why the film appears empty in this department.
I liked the score, but I'm not a fan of the cinematography. The music might not be great to listen to outside the film, on your phone, it's not that type of score, but it works very well within the movie. Besides that all the songs are also nicely chosen to accompany the film's key moments.
As for the visuals, I thought it was "cheating" with slow motion. It picked shots in the film and made them grander by applying slo-mo instead of making them thematically grand and give them a moment to breath. It unfortunately reminded me of Zack Snyder's terrible habits of self-seriousness. I also didn't like the color palette for this.
The film's climax is great, though predictable. Finally we got a semblance of a Joker character in the end, being despicable as he should be. And they tried to insert some kind of message about society, but it is as banal as Arthur's self-pity and as warped as his sense of what's good.
What I really enjoyed the most is the film's unreliability. Both Joker, his mother, maybe Wayne and the film itself often don't tell us the whole truth, or simply lie and you have to decide for yourself what is truth and what is not. It doesn't always work (like with Zaze Beetz's character, which are obvious), but when it does it keeps you guessing and it is a sort of film that requires a couple of rewatches.
The pace of the film is not great. The first half drags when we spend so much time with Arthur and trying to make us feel pity for him. I thought it would amp up after the first murder but it also lingered a bit too long.
However, overall this is an interesting experiment as a whole and I would like more bold takes from comic book movies. Not exactly like Joker, but ones that play with different genres and ideas for new versions of famous characters. This is no Logan but it has the same good aspirations behind it. If you skipped the self-seriousness and gave it thematic depth this would have been a masterpiece.
I think I'll rate it 7/10, although I might lower the score or maybe go a bit higher if I sleep on it.
PS. I will not compare Phoenix to Nicholson or Ledger, because they actually played Joker. Phoenix plays Arthur Fleck.
It's a cold film. I didn't feel emotionally attached to Fleck and his struggles, which is possibly my biggest issue with the film and Joaquin's performance,a performance with which I'm undecided about.
I honestly feel,more so in the first hour, Joaquin didn't know how the heck to tackle Joker.
To condense my feelings on the Joker I will quote Mr Kermode,not in relation of his review of the Joker, "I just sat there watching it".
Thomas Wayne in this film makes Trump look like a stable genius. I mean all supporting characters here are cartoonish and dumb, but that guy definitely takes the cake.
Imagine what Alec Baldwin would have done with the character.Master Virgo wrote: ↑October 8th, 2019, 4:52 amThomas Wayne in this film makes Trump look like a stable genius. I mean all supporting characters here are cartoonish and dumb, but that guy definitely takes the cake.
It's a neat idea to introduce Bruce as this privileged kid who is almost literally sheltered from the real, ugly world. I didn't mind that
Thomas Wayne has had different portrayals in the comics. He was even Batman in an alternate timeline. But probably the version closest to this Wayne is the Telltale Games Thomas Wayne, who was revealed to be a criminal working with Falcone. And Bruce would have to live with a lot of guilt for what his father had done.
