So do you think there cannot be a version of this story where Bruce's father is an asshole? Gotham by Gaslight hasBatman's Batman wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2019, 4:30 pmWe rarely get to see the family life that Bruce had before losing his parents. But the little glimpses of that which we do see showcase how his father was an inspiration for him and how much he meant for him. Which is why Batman Begins is the masterpiece it is: it gives Thomas Wayne an integral role in shaping Bruce's character. Bruce's father wasn't perfect. There are some flashbacks that show him doing questionable things. Like in The Long Halloween, where Thomas saves an injured gangster after he got shot. Or in one bronze age comic, where Thomas is shown slapping Bruce for acting like an immature child. But at the end, he was always a good man. This movie, from what I've read, shows him being a complete asshole. As for the Zorro being an inspiration for Bruce, his father was the one who told Bruce about Zorro and made him want to see it:Didn't Bruce Wayne become Batman because he sought revenge for is parents' murder (parents he loved maybe in spite of their character and yes I think he does not really know his parents well because he was only a young kid when they were killed) and he saw Zorro just before they got killed and then a bat flew through the window one day and he decided he would become a masked vigilante who beats up poor people?
I'd ask this: how does the possibility of Thomas Wayne being a bad person at heart render the pursuit of justice meaningless?
Joker (2019)
Posts: 4794
Joined:
January 2012
Posts: 3728
Joined:
June 2011
I wish they tackled this in a Batman movie where a villain reveals the true nature of Bruce’s parents to his face, that perhaps they were two rich people pushing their thumbs down on the 99 percent, involved in some fucked up shit. It shatters Bruce’s world. He questions everything. And then still makes the decision in the third act, to fight for people who are less fortunate. He still has love for his parents in ways, but lost so much respect for them, decided to shut them out and accepts Alfred as his true parent. Now wrestling with even more conflicting demons, he carries on his mission regardless.
I almost wish they kept this going with an aged Joaquin/Joker in a 90’s period Batman film from Matt Reeves. Just to do something different. But this is also good as a stand alone Joker where we never get to see Bruce grow up.
I almost wish they kept this going with an aged Joaquin/Joker in a 90’s period Batman film from Matt Reeves. Just to do something different. But this is also good as a stand alone Joker where we never get to see Bruce grow up.
Posts: 4794
Joined:
January 2012
Yeah, I mean I always wondered whether he even knew his parents that well in the comics. Of course he loved them as a child but you can love your parents and they can still be terrible to other people in their lives for no good reason at all and you as a kid might never know that aspect of their personality. That does not mean that his love for his parents would not be real or that trying to stand up for justice in the face of a terrible crime would not be necessary.
That's a unique idea, Shauner. That would be a pretty interesting take at the mythos. Part of me kinda sees the BVS Batman with that backstory already built in (with a bit of imagination)
nailed it@davidehrlich
people getting excited for a Todd Phillips movie is making me feel like Trump could win again.
david ehrlich @davidehrlich
i’m sorry but if otherwise smart people are shitting their pants for a Joker movie from the director of The Hangovers 1, 2, *and* 3 then we as a nation are truly lost.
david ehrlich @davidehrlich
it could be good! i thought Shazam looked dumb as hell and i wound up loving it! same with marriage and owning a hedgehog! life is full of surprises. but i’m firmly on the side of “guilty until proven innocent go see High Life in theaters tomorrow” on this one thanks.
I thought The Hangover movies were decent and Hangover 3 kind of shows some elements of how Phillips could possibly handle this movie.
Ehrlich is being very harsh on this.
Phone Booth made fun of this trope... in 2002.DHOPW42 wrote: ↑April 3rd, 2019, 12:39 pmMy very own nitpicky opinion is that the only reason I have doubts is that I find this "abused, bullied weird guy turning into a hero/villain" thing quite tiring at this point. I'm probably not alone with this but also it seems like most people don't have a problem with that, which is also fine. It is a promising project with amazing actors in it, visuals are quite nice, but the whole basis on what this is built feels old to me. I know TDK was 11 years ago, and at that time it was obvious that they couldn't do this route again. That's why they didn't build Ledger's Joker on psychological and mental health issues. And you could say that after 11 years they can, once again, deal with the mental side of this character, but I, personally, don't care for that at this point. I'm still curious about future trailers and the film itself, but this is my prejudice towards the whole project.
The first Hangover is quite good but the definition of dumb fun. The other two are garbage. I don’t like Ehrlich but to me he’s spot on here.
Posts: 4794
Joined:
January 2012
Batman's line in The Killing Joke is very telling when it comes to this type of stuff: "So maybe ordinary people don't always crack. Maybe there isn't any need to crawl under a rock with all the other slimey things when trouble hits...maybe it was just you all along." I don't think he's entirely right but it's likely a bit more reasonable than to say "it's everyone else's fault that I am this way and I could not do anything to change the outcome".
Can't this guy's circumstances and this own character both contribute in different ways to the strange and terrible end result? The way we react to difficult experiences is our responsibility but we also need to be given the right social tools to respond to hardships.
Can't this guy's circumstances and this own character both contribute in different ways to the strange and terrible end result? The way we react to difficult experiences is our responsibility but we also need to be given the right social tools to respond to hardships.
This movie feels very different to Todd Philips' though. It really feels like he's wanting to do some deep sea diving of the psyche of the psychotic clown criminal.
I know plenty of people who aren't down with this movie because they don't need an origin story, and I understand that. For me, I'm just very comfortable with being in touch with my own personal taste when it comes to movies. And when I saw this trailer, it felt like WB had made this movie for me; my favourite actor of all-time in the role of my favourite villain of all-time. It's one of the rare times where I'm not concerned with what the movie might end up being like because by default, WB already has my money and heart with Phoenix as The Joker.
I know plenty of people who aren't down with this movie because they don't need an origin story, and I understand that. For me, I'm just very comfortable with being in touch with my own personal taste when it comes to movies. And when I saw this trailer, it felt like WB had made this movie for me; my favourite actor of all-time in the role of my favourite villain of all-time. It's one of the rare times where I'm not concerned with what the movie might end up being like because by default, WB already has my money and heart with Phoenix as The Joker.
