Once Upon a Time in Hollywood (2019)

All non-Nolan related film, tv, and streaming discussions.
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I think it's Tarantino's first truly provocative film in a long time. Inglourious Basterds and Django Unchained are sensationalistic, but they both fall square in the middle of the dominant cultural narrative -- especially the narrative coming out of Hollywood.*

Perhaps ironically, Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood is violently reactionary, and extremely refreshing and satisfying because of that. It smashes to bits the accepted narrative, which was established by the same hippie boomers Brad and Leo physically smash to bits at the end of the film. Tarantino used his clout with movie stars and financiers to make something special. Has to be my favorite film of the year.

*Don't get me wrong, I love Basterds. I think it's his greatest filmmaking achievement, but killing Nazis in creative ways isn't actually pushing the envelope. From a storytelling perspective, I think the Fredrick Zoller subplot is the best part of the film, and I give Tarantino huge credit for humanizing that character, but overall I think it's a much safer film than OUATIH. Django Unchained is sloppy, indulgent and just plain bad in my opinion. I think fact that Tarantino won an Oscar for writing a screenplay that stops dead in its tracks for a painfully unfunny SNL sketch with Jonah Hill is a discredit to everyone concerned.

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Tenetdrome wrote:
December 28th, 2019, 8:53 pm
*Don't get me wrong, I love Basterds. I think it's his greatest filmmaking achievement, but killing Nazis in creative ways isn't actually pushing the envelope. From a storytelling perspective, I think the Fredrick Zoller subplot is the best part of the film, and I give Tarantino huge credit for humanizing that character, but overall I think it's a much safer film than OUATIH. Django Unchained is sloppy, indulgent and just plain bad in my opinion. I think fact that Tarantino won an Oscar for writing a screenplay that stops dead in its tracks for a painfully unfunny SNL sketch with Jonah Hill is a discredit to everyone concerned.
You sound like a parody or a Nolan fan stereotype, like you hate humor and fun.

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I felt the same way during that scene. :shifty:

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I thought all the stuff that people were complaining about,(Bruce Lee, little dialogue for Margo,
violence against women in the end)
were all really non issues. And the film is overall in continuation of QT's terrific streak ever since Basterds. Love all of his last four films.

However the one bit that slightly bothers me is how it
implies that Cliff has killed his wife and then immediately show us what an annoying woman she apparently has been
.

Like what are you trying to say QT. What's the point of telling us that. Idk, It doesn't sit well with me.

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It's part of the movie's longer conversation about the interrelatedness of violence in media and violence in real life, reprised in the car before the end of the movie

it's obviously ambiguous by design whether the flashback is "real" or not, and if it is, what that has to say about Cliff. Is he "zen" because he's a guy with a violent soul? If so, we're asked how that changes how we "read" the fact he's 1.) a stuntman 2.) his extreme behavior "violent" behavior throughout.


-Vader

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See, I would feel bad missing out on any of Werner Herzog's films but I know I'll be fine if I miss some of Tarantino's films because what he does as a director is not really impressive to me anymore.

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Batfan175 wrote:
December 30th, 2019, 2:26 am
See, I would feel bad missing out on any of Werner Herzog's films but I know I'll be fine if I miss some of Tarantino's films because what he does as a director is not really impressive to me anymore.
Image

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Nistopher Colon wrote:
December 30th, 2019, 7:07 am
Batfan175 wrote:
December 30th, 2019, 2:26 am
See, I would feel bad missing out on any of Werner Herzog's films but I know I'll be fine if I miss some of Tarantino's films because what he does as a director is not really impressive to me anymore.
Image
I just think it's one thing to say 'my movies have a lot to say about violence' but when he ends up making good-looking films that mainly have a pulp sensibility and a lot of cultural reference points but not much in terms of substance it just becomes less interesting to me overall.

For instance, Django Unchained is a good-looking film with a fun DiCaprio performance but ultimately it is all in service of a rather surface-level commentary on slavery and racism in the United States, one which, while admirable, is not something I have not seen done with more detail, nuance and elegance in other films about slavery and racism in the United States. The violence is vicious and unflinching but ultimately in service of a rather general point and as a result Tarantino always ends up sitting squarely within the mainstream of American pop culture imo, which is where I feel he is the most comfortable. Quentin's films do not seem challenging to me in most ways other than how far he's willing to push the violence.

I think it's cool that he has a voice and that he gets to make the projects he likes (a privilege not afforded to all directors), I just wished he was more artistically ambitious. You see, I can watch something like Grizzly Man over and over again because that film has something to say about people's self-importance, their struggles in the face of indifferent, uncaring Nature and their relation to the animals that populate this planet and how they view themselves as a result. Maybe Herzog's grim outlook and empathy with the grandiose and strange people of the world just seems much more heartfelt and actually engaging than most Tarantino films, I dunno.

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Lemme just do a quickie in this thread, waste everybody's time saying how much I'm unimpressed by it all.

No, wait, it's actually a mega-paragraph dump nobody cares about, yay.

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lemme just bring up an unrelated director nobody was talking about in this thread prior to me chiming in, as if that somehow serves my point

also, sorry, but i stopped reading after “but not much in terms of substance”, like i know it’s trendy for the true kino connoisseurs to consider tarantino as low brow edge aimed at 14 year olds, but this statement is literally meaningless

WHAT exactly is “substance” in film? Please come up with a 2000 word essay on my desk by january 1st. I’ll need something to sober me up from the existential dread, or pull me deeper into the void

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