everyone did a great job

Pratham wrote:

Batfan175 wrote:Logan is finally a more mature superhero film, one of the very few, if not the only one, we got after TDK and TDKR. It is the best superhero movie of the year and has the power to stand the test of time because it does not really do any visibly annoying nods to any of the comicbook lore. It's just a good story with characters we care about.

Can you elaborate on this please?

It does. But comic books are only silly little things for geeks amirite.

I'm asking because there's literally a scene with comic-books in the middle of the movie. If that's not a nod to comic-book lore, I don't know what is.

Also, comic book adaptations literally adapt comic book lore for the big screen, so what you’re watching from begining to end is someone’s interpretation of usually dozens of chapters in said lore, Logan included.

Wait, you’re telling me comic books can be thought provoking and meaningful?

Read Incal and shut up. Oh wait, it was Batfan, again. How’s the social experiment going, any progress?

Batfan (writes down): Specimen X is aware of the experiment, continue onwards.

Pratham wrote:

Batfan175 wrote:Logan is finally a more mature superhero film, one of the very few, if not the only one, we got after TDK and TDKR. It is the best superhero movie of the year and has the power to stand the test of time because it does not really do any visibly annoying nods to any of the comicbook lore. It's just a good story with characters we care about.

Can you elaborate on this please?

It does not pander to fans of the comics by showing them some object that references something else in the series. I was thinking along the lines of the nod to the Captain America shield in Ironman 2. I just had to roll my eyes at that because it was not subtle about what it was trying to do. I didn't need a reminder that, yes, they were going to do the Avengers at some point. So the only reson it was in there was for marketing purposes. The nods in Logan are few and far between (mostly thematic references to Shane anyway and not other comicbook movies in the X-Men series or something) and whenever they do happen it's not in your face about promoting some future installment or other entry in the franchise (like Deadpool).

Logan has a scene where Logan looks at a comicbook to point out to Laura how fake and foolish all that stuff is. That alone is a comment on comics in general. It means that the film is not going to submit to limitations of what has been established in comics like 'Old Man Logan' but it's going to tell its own story and shape the characters in ways that suit the themes and narrative of the film whilst staying true to the essence of the original characters from the comics.

Also, some of the stuff in the comics would feel tonally out of place for this film. The villains of the film are not well-known generally outside of the comicbook crowd (which means their presence does not distract from the narrative point because Magneto in a colourful cape bending metal bridges to his will would not fit into this film imo) and the idea of other superheroes existing is not even alluded to, which is great because that means the urgency and importance of Logan's quest to protect the future of the mutants is underlined...because there is noone else who is in a position, or willing, to do anything to help him and the implications are enormous whilst the action is playing out on a smaller level. That flies in the face of the interconnected and expanding nature of the universe of the comics where everyone is sort of aware of each other in their increasingly epic adventures of enormous scope, even if they appear in different Marvel comicbook series but that alone does not make for a great story.

I don't care how faithful it is in terms of adapting what is canon in the comics and I don't care about these films creating some wider universe that gets bigger and bigger but not any deeper. I certainly don't care about recognizing references to the comics. I care about these films being good films first and foremost. Logan passes that test because you could watch it knowing nothing at all about the comics and still come away from it thinking 'I get that character and his struggle and the film made me care'.

In TDKR you have the red phone and Shakespear's bust from Batman 66 and a reference to Killer Croc, though. Not to mention Blake's name.

Batfan175 wrote: Logan passes that test because you could watch it knowing nothing at all about the comics and still come away from it thinking 'I get that character and his struggle and the film made me care'.

Sure, but it is much better when you know the lore. The Winchester event is one of the most powerful revelations in the film and it has little to no meaning to you if you haven't seen the previous X-Men movies

LelekPL wrote:Sure, but it is much better when you know the lore. The Winchester event is one of the most powerful revelations in the film and it has little to no meaning to you if you haven't seen the previous X-Men movies

Of course but the film also works on its own and that's all I ask. Knowledge of the other films might enhance your experience but without that knowledge of the comics or the previous X-Men films the film works too. That's why the references should be the icing on the cake, not the cake itself.

References to the Red Hood, the Lazarus Pit or Blake's real name in TDKR don't bother me because the story plays out mostly without drawing attention to the easter eggs that might refer to stuff from the comics. The MCU and DCEU however are using a bullhorn to draw my attention to this stuff and it's keeping them from being great examples of the superhero genre. They are too busy cramming all that stuff in to please the fans and drawing attention to it with dialogue instead of wondering whether including those elements makes sense for the story or not.

The Westchester revelation enhances your experience if you know what that means but even without knowing that the film itself makes it clear that Xavier is guilt-ridden over something horrible that happened and that he feels it's his fault. That's all we need to know and the film has provided a likely explanation to us by that point as well because we have seen his seizures and what the implications are for the people around him.

Batfan175 wrote: References to the Red Hood,

What?

m4st4 wrote:Exclusive from the future, Nomis’ list of best sh movies for 2018:

1) Aquaman
2) New Mutants
3) Dark Phoenix
4) Deadpool 2
5) Ant-Man and The Wasp
6) Black Panther
7) Infinity War



...what?

lol I knew you would do this

For the record, JL was easily the worst cbm of the last year. Is your mind going to crash now?

@Virgo: Huge Marvel comics fan, especially of the 90s, so I hope that the MCU will actually succeed in making something as compelling and fantastic as Nolan's Batman films. Can't judge any film without having seen it you know.

LelekPL wrote:

Batfan175 wrote: References to the Red Hood,

What?

Now, it could be a coincidence but Bane wearing a red biker helmet and a biker suit when he enters and leaves the stock exchange looks an awful lot like Jason Todd as the Red Hood. I'm just having fun with the visual elements of the film.